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Comment by TomOfTTB | Hacker News Reader

The question really is "who is the target of this program" If it's people who were already sold on Microsoft technology than it's just a nice thing to do. If they are trying to woo other developers away from open source solutions the approach they've taken comes across as "we think we're outsmarting you"

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The developers using open source solutions might be of the class "I'm using opensource solutions because they're better in this case," who Microsoft isn't targeting with this thing. They might be of the class "I'm using opensource solutions because there's no difference in quality, and the opensource stuff is cheaper." Microsoft is trying to make the decision harder for these people, but they're still not really the target audience.

This program is really meant for people of the class "I really want to use Microsoft products X, Y, and Z, but I can't, because I won't be able to afford licenses until my business has spun up. I'll make do with this opensource stuff instead." Now, I'm not entirely sure who these people are. Maybe they're developing desktop software or something. Provided they exist, though, this program could actually help them.

I'm one of those people and am happily using Microsoft products through BizSpark to develop web apps. Yes, I could use python with django or php with mysql (and have in the past); but I can build products better and faster with asp.net/c# (it's what I know and like best). And now that I don't have to pay huge licensing fees before I make a profit I can do that.

It can be a good deal.

Personally, I use both MS and FOSS products extensively. I am a huge fan of Python and it is my primary scripting language, but my main career is as an MS SQL Server DBA, and I think that for many applications (not all) it compares quite favorably with mysql and oracle.

What if they are trying to appeal to people who need less than 3 years to decide if their business is going to be successful? If it is successful, the money won't matter. If it isn't, the money won't matter.

I don't think anyone at Microsoft could seriously believe that a developer would base their entire business/consultant career on an unchecked belief that these near-free licences never expired.

I think it's much more likely that they are trying to eliminate one reason new businesses/consultants may decide against using Microsoft tech (which their market research may have yielded). If they can make Microsoft tech accessible to startups, web dev agencies and solo web developers then that's a big step towards growing their dev popularity.

that's a big step towards growing their dev popularity

Looks more like a last straw to me.

There's simply nothing they could realistically offer at this point to lure the web community into their walled garden. Dozens of OSS stacks are competing for mindshare. Microsoft is not even playing.

ASP.NET MVC devastates all web platforms I've dealt with but rails. I realise it's a personal preference thing but you should look into it - it's open source, they got prominent community figures to design it and it lets you use C# (a great growing language) online properly without worrying about ASP.NET crap.

To each their own. If MS can revert their public image to a point where people will seriously consider them for a web development platform then hats off. Until then I doubt anyone in their right mind would trust the creator of Internet Explorer and IIS with anything web related.

moe, what do you think of stackoverflow.com? That's running on MVC with a complete Microsoft stack.

EDIT: Also might be worth mentioning they use the BizSpark program.

Anecdotical evidence is not needed when you can get hard figures; http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2009/08/31/august_2009_web...

I find the "Totals for Active Servers Across All Domains"-graph at the bottom especially intriguing.

Either Microsoft didn't pay their NetCraft-bill, or IIS is falling off a cliff here.

It's not anecdotical evidence, it was in question of this: "Until then I doubt anyone in their right mind would trust the creator of Internet Explorer and IIS with anything web related."

So, from what I can gather, Spolsky and Attwood are:

A) Out of their minds (possible?)

B) Are limited and going to have issues since it's built on the Microsoft stack.

Edit: Also, I didn't know if you knew SO was built on the Microsoft stack, I was asking a legitimate question.

Yes, I knew SO was built on MS, Jeff is known as a Windows guy. Just tried to clarify that one swallow doesn't make a summer. For each windows based website I can show you five built on proper tooling (literally, if the netcraft figures are to be believed).

I wouldn't say the two are out of their minds. "Misguided" is more polite, I guess.

hahaha, I can handle being misguided if I get to release two successful business ventures in my life.

In any case, I'm not arguing with you on the popularity of the two for sure, but I am happy MS is deciding to get their act together and really try to compete, however slow and small their steps are.

Edit: Okay you got me curious, why was this down modded? Was it outside the scope of the conversation? Or was it the comment about Spolsky and Attwood?

More stuff is written in java than lisp. Does this much java a better language by your definition?

Until you can show that using the new Microsoft technology we are talking about (and MVC has only just come out) actually increases development time by a significant factor or some other significant problem, labelling it "improper tooling" is simply identity-based Microsoft hate.

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