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Comment by PhasmaFelis | Hacker News Reader

Feminism, in general, is biased against men in the same sense that giving a short person a box to stand on at a concert so he can see the stage, and not giving a box to a tall person who can see just fine already, shows bias against tall people.

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This is a great metaphor - on a concert, it doesn't matter who sees the stage - the important thing is the music, there is really no difference between short and tall people, and noone needs a box. The only reason the small person might need a box is because (s)he feels inferior compared to the large one.

This is just like a lot of feminism. Feminists arbitrarily decided that men's lives were better than women's, and wanted to make it possible for women to lead men's lives. Personally, I consider that being at home is better than being at work, but feminists hardly ever fought for the ability of men to be stay-at-home dads.

I'm not condemning box-giving. I'm just pointing out that only giving boxes to short people is by definition discriminatory (I hope you agree or we need to have another conversation).

It's positive discrimination (which, coincidentally, is how affirmative action is described) but discrimination nonetheless.

I'm not judging. I just thought I would share because I find it useful to remember.

Hmm. How would you categorize, say, giving powered wheelchairs only to people who have difficulty walking, and not to people who can walk fine by themselves?

This is the most patronizing thing I've read in a while. Women don't magically have some (ableist) disadvantage that prevents them from participating.

The thing that keeps them from participating is men bullying them and forcing them out.

You're reading way too much into my analogy. The point is just that lifting up someone who's been pushed down does not also require you to lift up someone who's doing just fine in order to be "fair." This applies whether the disadvantage is due to outside bullying (as in the case of feminism and affirmative action) or an actual disability (it's not "unfair" to make special allowances for an autistic office worker, for example).

That is wrong, that suggests women are inferior to men and need help permanently.

In reality the real goal should be making the short person grow to be equal height.

That's my point. Don't overthink the analogy. Or, feel free to substitute "give a ladder to a person stuck in a hole, but not to a person on solid ground," if you prefer.

And what if the small-person-on-box now blocks the view of the tall person?

For purposes of this overstretched analogy, it's much more common for the short person to be beside the tall person and not blocking their view at all, but the tall person starts screaming that they deserve a box anyway.

This is brilliant. I'm going to have to steal this whenever possible.

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