Fred Wilson: Startup Visas | Hacker News Reader

Fred Wilson: Startup Visas

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19 pointscwan12 comments

Speaking as someone who has been through the naturalization process, the current mechanisms for getting permission to live and work in the United States are ridiculous. But I'm not sure that adding a carve-out for an elite with access to venture funding is the answer.

Saying "let's let intrepid people come and work in the country if they want to start a business" is appealing in principle, but any implementation would be rife with moral hazard.

It would be far better to see this kind of energy (and money!) channeled in support of general immigration reform.

actually, the current EB-5 structure is perhaps subject to the "elite" criticism, but our proposal is exactly the opposite.

if changed as we suggest -- so that any entrepreneur talented enough to attract funding can get the visa, not just the investor -- then it's actually anti-elitist, and in fact democratizes access.

As someone pointed out recently (sorry, can't find the original blog post) this sort of plan really skews the power dynamic between the entrepreneur and VC/angel. If you really make this visa contingent on funding, then in addition to having the power of the purse, the VC will have the power of immigration.

One solution, of course, is to make it independent of funding, but then distinguishing between "founders" and "people who want to move to the US and might one day start a company" gets pretty hard, policy-wise. Now, I have no particular aversion to the latter group either, but plenty of Americans apparently do.

The real answer, as many have suggested, is to fix immigration policy rather than carving out exceptions for our preferred niche.

Edit: found original blog post referenced above - http://kirkwylie.blogspot.com/2009/09/founder-visa-ignores-i...

I'm not particularly vested in this conversation (US Citizen). But I found Kirk's point the most compelling so far.

The point I particularly found interesting was how the UK and Australia already have provisions in their immigration policy for "highly skilled" workers. This sounds like a more equitable solution which would hopefully cover those like startup founders.

Oh please... if you want to start a company in US, just do it - nothing should stop you. I came here on H1b, my brother applied and got his H1b this year and a bunch of people I worked with - it's not a freaking rocket science.

There were maybe 2-3 years during the last decade where H1b quotas were much smaller than demand, so what - it just took some folks a bit longer. I don't know anyone who wanted to relocate here but couldn't due to visa issues. Lack of a healthcare system is what actually scares people away, yes even young ones.

I'm all for erasing borders, promoting "citizens of the world" thing, whatever. But there are so many real issues we need to solve right now, that visas for founders seems like an aid for lazy.

We all know a famous saying/advice for first-time CEOs/entrepreneurs: "if you can't get an introduction, you probably won't be able to run a company", similarly it can be said "If you can't get into the US you probably won't be able to start a business".

You came here on an H1B for your own startup? Were you already venture funded? Because it's next to impossible to come here on an H1B for a startup that doesn't have signficant revenue and/or a decent number of customers.

Also it's not generally possible to get venture funding for a US based startup while still in another country. A VC would not want to add "immigration policy risk" to the extensive list of risks she already takes when investing in a startup.

Secondly, assuming you are already here on an H1B working for largeco (as I am), it is also not possible to start your own startup without 1) Having an American cofounder 2) Raising funding and/or getting a large number of customers

Getting customers before you start working on a startup is of course impossible and raising funding before you start working on it full time is also really hard (unless you are already a superstar in your domain of work).

So, really, on what basis are you calling people who want a simplified process lazy?

That's an interesting viewpoint.

pg says that one of the key qualities in startup founders is being relentlessly resourceful.

1. What is stopping you from building a product (and thereby getting customers) while working for largeco?

2. What is stopping you from finding an American co-founder to startup with?

One of the risks of #1, of course, is that you run the risk of violating your H1 status if you work for someone else, but if you make something people want, and get traction (without charging for it), then you'll have a much easier time starting a company, raising money for that company and sponsoring your visa.

It would be much easier if the US just allowed you to come here and set up shop, but then, how would they know who to let in? (The UK/Canada/Australia get around this by using your past experience, education and skills and I have no idea why the US does not - it does, however, have a vastly more higher requirement O1 visa.)

You do realize that if you are out of status at any time, which you will be if you are working part time on H1B (you obtained for a different company) for your startup, you are illegally living in US. Moreover, if you apply for an extension or move the H1B to your own startup, you will have to mention that you were out of status because you were working for your own company, which will make you ineligible for H1B. If you dont, and you get caught you will be barred to enter US FOREVER, because you lied on an immigration document. Do you also know that you cannot get an H1B visa for your own startup no matter what, unless you can show somehow that you can be fired (which only can happen if you give away most of your equity to someone else). Even if you are not making money when you are on H1B for a different company, but if you signed a contract, signed a cheque, or were responding to customers, you are out of status. You can think that how can anyone would come to know that you were working at the backend, but are you willing to take the risk of getting barred to enter US forever?

pg also says do a startup full time. There is a reason for that: startups are iterative and you should develop something in close contact with customers. Trying to do it while working on a full time job makes it very very hard.

Secondly, the legal issues both on the immigration side and in terms of working on something while working for another tech company make it a very very very fine line that you have to walk. Conservative lawyers will tell you there is no line, you are breaking the law if you work on something other than your day job period.

Finding a co-founder is like finding a marriage partner (seriously). It is not impossible to find an American partner but limiting your possibilities only makes it a little harder. Plus, you better hope you are a great judge of people because if your American partner walks out, your startup is doomed.

Finally, yes skill based immigration (as Canada does it) is the answer IMHO. But even if they let people who are already in the US on H1B and who are skilled start their startups through a formal visa process, I will be happy.

So, really, on what basis are you calling people who want a simplified process lazy?

So I assume you've got all your code written, marketing pitch nailed down and customers are all lined up waiting for you to finish your GC from the bigcorp? Don't act like the need for a green card is the only hurdle between you and The Millions.

The point I am making is simple: there are LOTS of obstacles to "making it" and getting an employer-sponsored green card is BY FAR the least significant issue you need to solve.

What else do you want to be successful? Free healthcare for entrepreneurs? Dedicated highway lanes for entrepreneurs? Look, the US is already one of the most immigrant-friendly societies out there, there are great incentives to start a business as compared to most other countries and American culture is very forgiving to those who fail but try again. It's freaking awesome here. Stop complaining and get to work!

Actually, I am not waiting for the greencard (seeing how it would take me at least 5 more years to get it). I am waiting to get the startup to a stage where it can sponsor an H1B for me which is very hard to do for reasons mentioned in my previous comments.

There is a difference between the permission to stay legally in the country while working full time on a business and free healthcare and dedicated highway lanes. Those comparisons make me think you are just trolling. The former does not cost the government money, arguably, they will make more money from my business on taxes.

You are spouting generalizations about the immigration friendly nature of America without addressing the basic question: what is wrong with having an easier and non dubious way for someone on an H1B to start a startup?

What's more: you implied, quite baselessly, that going from an H1B to a startup is so easy that only the lazy would have problems doing it. You have not yet provided a single justification for that.

The US is a very immigrant friendly society in many ways; you're right about that. People are welcoming of foreigners in many ways. The problem is the government, which is really bad at dealing with immigration.

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