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Microsoft Announces Windows 10

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184 pointsnimeshneema146 comments

What in the world is an Arduino Yun doing in this picture of Windows devices: http://files.tested.com/photos/2014/09/30/68049-windows_prod...

See item on farthest left, it's an Arduino Yun board without the sticker: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardYun?from=Products.Ardu...

The Yun has a 400mhz MIPS processor (and an 8-bit AVR for Arduino compatibility) that runs Linux and I would wager will never run a variant of Windows 10. Did somebody in marketing or whatever just search for Arduino and slap the first picture they saw on the slide?

Good catch! I suspect it is more like they wanted to convey the message Windows 10 can also be used in embedded applications currently covered by e.g. Windows Embedded Compact 7. Someone in marketing did an image search for "embedded board" or something, and added the best looking image, which accidentally turns out to be a Yun.

Yeah, weird they didn't put in an Intel Galileo or Edison, since those are actual embedded boards that can run Windows (Galileo at least, but I'd be shocked if Edison doesn't run Windows for IoT/devices/embedded whatever too).

Or maybe it's all a secret project to massively slim Windows down so it can run in the AVR's 2 kilobytes of memory. BillG can revise his quote to be, '2K ought to be enough for anybody'. :)

> At the other end of the spectrum, there are hospital emergency rooms and pacemakers running Windows. It would be the wrong thing (always up-to-date) on those devices.

From the original link.

Like I said the Yun does not and I would bet never will run Windows. If you can get Windows 10 to run on a 400mhz MIPS processor with 64mb of memory and 16mb of storage I would be genuinely impressed. I pointed it out because it's funny, like taking a picture of an iMac and slapping a Windows start menu on it.

Windows NT 3.1 ran on a 66Mhz with 16MB ram, the MIPS and Alpha versions that also existed at the time were incredibly fast if you could afford the hardware (I could not).

Theoretically, an embedded version of just the Windows kernel and basic services might fit that profile, if Microsoft were to resurrect a MIPS version. Also, Windows Phone runs on hardware that's not much faster.

Maybe they're resurrecting the historic support Windows NT had for MIPS?

Those are vary similar boards, but I don't think there identical. On the bottom right of the Arduino there are 4 holes that line up with six others on the left side of the board. Note how there not parrellel with the bottom. Now compare that with the windows show it's got a line on the left bit it's not continued on the right side.

My guess is it's a different Arduino board or an x86 board that's trying to fit the same form factor which uses similar chips in similar places.

It looks like an Intel Gallieo Board

http://dev.windows.com/en-us/featured/Windows-Developer-Prog...

Maybe resurrect .Net MicroFramework with http://netduino.com/ ?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa448707.aspx

Windows CE has been running on MIPS for some time. It is likely that this sort of support has allowed Microsoft to run embedded solutions (such as Ford Sync, which was built on top of ARM)

I would personally like to see good defaults (I don't understand the big icons on taskbar nor any forced integration with any Microsoft markets), workspaces (more than 2) and flexible customization of visuals (not just transparency, colours and fonts) and some kind of a package manager for programs (at least set a standard/options for new installations of third-party programs to bind their update servers with a windows package manager). Perhaps a selection of normal user vs power user on installation would be welcome.

I know I'm describing Linux desktop environments, but I have problems with drivers and hardware managers on Linux distros (with my T420) and I don't think the desktop environments are polished as much as Windowses and Mac OS's are. It feels like I have to put that extra effort in just to get things set up correctly. (I've used Gnome, Xfce and awesome)

> drivers and hardware managers on Linux distros (with my T420)

Care to elaborate? My lappy is a T410 and my roommates a T520. Neither of us have any hardware/driver issues.

As far as the UI goes, I somewhat agree. However when I use a TMW I am not looking for polish, I am looking for efficiency. That's why I only use a TMW on my work computer.

At home I run cinnamon. Looking to poke around KDE 5.1 once it is released but honestly I spend so little time in the UI of the OS it hardly matters any more as I spend most of my time in the UI of an app/website.

As an example, I didn't fire up MS word or VI to post this comment so UI polish is just that, polish.

>It feels like I have to put that extra effort in just to get things set up correctly.

And it should. Depending on what flavor of Linux you go with, you will have different defaults chosen for your OS.

From the developers perspective however they are just trying to not restrict you or your choices so that you can customize the environment to your liking. The trade-off is time and effort of that customization. This can be very overwhelming or feel unnecessary. Additionally some people find that the defaults "just work" for them.

Hopefully you give another *nix distro a spin in the future.

> some kind of a package manager for programs

Microsoft's Windows Management Framework v5.0 will include PowerShell OneGet [1]. This is probably the closest thing to a package manager in Windows.

[1] http://blogs.technet.com/b/keithmayer/archive/2014/04/16/wha...

https://chocolatey.org/ - apt-get for Windows, basically. It's not as capable as its Linux brethren, but it's perfectly usable, and it takes a lot of pain out of setting up a Windows box. "cinst GoogleChrome" is as painless as you'd expect.

"One product family. One platform. One store. Windows... One. Wait no, Ten."

This level of cluelessness from Microsoft's branding team would be stunning if it hadn't been the rule for a decade and more. The OS itself looks nice, though.

Windows ten is just Windows one with nothing added.

Windows 9.999... = 10 :)

The presenter said that Windows 1 had been done already, and showed a photo of Bill with a floppy disk.

Not sure what would be better - WinX? Windows One? WindOne? W1ndows?

Windows 1.0 was 28 years ago. There will be exactly zero confusion if they recycled the (IMO superior) name.

Until the next version.

Windows One 2? Windows 360? Windows 12?

We have already established the One comes after 360.

I thought it went one s, one x, one and one....

Where does OnePlus fall into all this?

Uhmm, my guess is they skipped 9 to avoid confusion with the 9x versions.

If this is true, then focus groups has failed the marketing team.

That didn't stop them from doing Xbox One.

Windows 9.

That's the thing about positive integers: you can't run out of them.

Tell that to 9223372036854775808.

Aleph-naught bottles of beer on the wall!

Aleph-naught bottles of beer!

Take one down, pass it around.

Aleph-naught bottles of beer on the wall!

Onedows.

I think they should think about the new wearable hardware that will be coming out and come up with a name that would evoke an image of working with apps in the air in front of you instead of on a screen/flat surface with a window. Like a Minority Report style interface.

Seriously it would not be Microsoft if they figured out how to name their products. The OS looks good but I also like 8.1.

Personally, I'm waiting for Windows Fuck It We're Going to Eleven.

Windows: taking it up to eleven.

    Windows 10.
    As solid as 7.
    As simple as 3.

      -- Winamp Naming Team

I wonder if they aren't at least partly tweaking Apple here. Remember Apple also skipped version 9 of their operating system. Even system 8 was "phoned in". At least Microsoft didn't make us wait a decade between versions 7 and "X" while milking us for money with fake non-updates called "8" and "9" along the way.

They've never skipped an os version to my knowledge. For at sure, but that was to bring it in line with the whole x thing in the os

They called it "OS X" because "X" is the roman numeral for 10. They had been promising (and promoting) the new system for five years or more, but it was still years away, so they offered "system 8" and "system 9" which were mere incremental updates of system 7, not real OS versions. (But you had to pay for them because they had new numbers.)

No they didn't: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/09/my-coworkers-made-me-us...

Interesting. Seems like they have capitulated on all the major complaints. Although strategically calling it 10 messes up the 'only odd number Windows are worth using' mantra :-).

Did they mention if it will run on ARM? Not the RT nonsense but full up all APIs Windows? I am sort of expecting them to poke back at Intel after the divorce.

capitulated on all the major complaints

Or you could call it listened to

I would expect they are always listening and evaluating. Capitulation being the change of their assertion that Windows 8 features were 'best' and then going back to the way they were in Windows 7. The reasons for that change of opinion might be that they listened to customer complaints, it might be that they compared adoption rates of this version of Windows to the previous version, or it might be something else.

So when the opinion changes from what it was, to something it was previously, I see that as capitulation. When an opinion changes from what it was, to something new, I see that as advancement.

It isn't a negative evaluation, its a statement of direction of change.

I can follow that reasoning, though I always looked at their Windows 8 features were 'best' statements as pure marketing instead of an actual assertion (you know, like commercials for washing powder which somehow gets better than the previous version every couple of months) - no way everyone at MS was really considering it 'best'. The idea of the hybrid-style OS isn't all that bad, but the way it came out wasn't exactly top notch.

They're saying its going to run on phones and phablets etc so yes sounds like some version of Windows 10 will run on ARM. I doubt it will be full windows api though, probably a subset something like RT. Whatever subset their universal apps target I guess.

> Although strategically calling it 10 messes up the 'only odd number Windows are worth using' mantra

I see... you're an optimist.

ctr+V will finally work as paste in command prompt. Finally !

It's hilarious that this makes it into the demo.

It is hilarious how terrible the terminal emulator is on Windows in general.

It wasn't a big deal with CMD as, frankly, CMD barely got touched since forever. But they've been actively developing Powershell now for many years but yet shoved it into the same antiquated terminal emulator.

I'm glad they're at least looking at it. Next up hopefully Control Panel. Barely changed since Windows 95 and subpar relative to what Apple do in OS X.

It's (I think) symptomatic of an organization that prioritizes new-hotness work over old-and-busted work.

I think that was their messaging -- the theme of these release is "we've fixed all the annoying things people complain about, from the Start Button for novice users to command prompt for power users". They want this release to feel, above all, familiar.

I hope they make it resizeable too like any other emulator on *nix world.

No, that's reserved for the future versions.

Yeah, let's not spoil the kids who choose our platform...

If you do any terminal work whatsoever on Windows (be it cmd/powershell/cygwin) I highly recommend ConEmu which has that and all other goodies you find on other OS's decent terminal apps

I use cmder, it's beautiful and it has pipeline, emacs shortcuts, less, grep, cat, ls, ssh, and more.

cmder is basically a customised conemu

unfortunately I work for a large enterprise that wont even give developers admin access to their machines, so I'm stuck with cmd :(

you don't need admin access to use conemu/cmder: download a zip, extract to any place you do have access to and off you go

thanks for that, will check it out.

beware that this will stop your current job in the unix world

Ctrl+Shift+V

And I've already got used to "Alt+Space", then "E", then "P".

Paste in command prompt? This works today: Alt-Space, E, P

Oh, that's simple

There's been "QuickEdit" Mode for years which lets you right-click the mouse to paste or to copy text. But, CTRL+V will be a nice convenience.

To enable QuickEdit mode: right-click command prompt title bar and choose "Properties" from the context menu. In the "Options" tab, check "QuickEdit Mode". Now you can select text by pressing and dragging mouse, copy text with right click, and paste text with right click.

Absence of ctrl+v in the terminal was one of the most simple and obvious clous that Microsoft didn't give a .... about developers. Absurd ad infinitum that it took this long.

maybe because serious Windows developers shouldn't be using command prompt?

Powershell and Powershell ISE is available for almost a decade now?

Why would I need an additional shell app to be able to simply use ctrl+v? For instance, on OS X I use the default terminal shipped with the OS, it does everything I need for a terminal application. Is a pasting functionality consistent with the rest of the OS too much to ask for a default shell?

That's a fair point. powershell ships by default though, it should be the default instead of cmd.exe

Powershell can't handle ctrl+v either. It puts in a ^V character. You can paste with a right click in Powershell, but no ctrl+v.

"Powershell ISE" does

ISE isn't really a terminal emulator though. It's an IDE.

Not out of the box, but ctrl+v works with https://github.com/lzybkr/PSReadLine

I stumbled on this on Google and got incredibly confused: http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613504/microsoft-windows/m...

You must have missed the "April Fools Joke" part at the end of the article.

I would really like some new version of Windows, regardless of the number, to really rethink the install/uninstall process. Really sandbox new software in and when you uninstall it, it really absolutely removes everything, instead of leaving garbage all over the system.

And also to improve the install process, let's please move beyond the install wizard. The user shouldn't have to click "next" 5 screens in a row where there are no options of any kind. Something more OS X-like would be nice.

Unfortunately it'd break too much legacy stuff.

That was the hope with the Windows Store. Unfortunately it was Metro only.

Rumors are, that the Windows Store in Win10 will feature a lot more content than Metro Apps, including Desktops Apps, and other content.

- http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-10-windows-store-to-suppo...

They're really bad at numbering. First the Xbox One, and now this

Looking forward to the next windows. Windows 360. Oh no, Windows 365. Yeah, that's better. Comes bundled with Office 365 and you have to rent it for a monthly fee. And if you are behind with a payment, the thing refuses to boot or will only let you view your files in read-only mode or something.

They have three main buttons on the taskbar now (start, search, workspaces) - anyone remember the Chicago betas? http://i.imgur.com/MZoowWG.jpg

Man, I miss those days!

Workspaces! I've been using them in Linux since 10 years ago.

Here's the Wikipedia article about their history:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_desktop

More like 20 years. They were in FVWM when I made first contact with linux around 1995 or so.

They were in Unix's CDE too, which I presume would have been even earlier than that.

What's the internal version number going to be? 6.3, or are they jumping to 7.0?

8.1 is NT 6.3 (if your program declares the correct manifest, otherwise it shows 6.2). My bet is on 6.4, or perhaps a larger jump within 6.x (like how ME was 4.90)

Current version number in the technical preview is: 6.4 Build 9841

Technically we're still waiting on Windows 7. ;-)

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms72...

"Going forward, Microsoft is planning to make regular, smaller updates to the Windows 10 codebase, rather than pushing out new major updates years apart"

Sounds familiar. Do all operating systems stop at 10 now?

Can not wait for minix to get that +7 and then we can have a real micro kernel os!

That sounds like a good idea to me - one version with frequent small free updates.

I agree. I think the age of massive OS overhauls is over, especially since all OS's are starting to look rather similar.

My check list to switch to Windows:

[x] Multiple desktops

[ ] Command line package manager like OSX's brew

[ ] Unified application install/upgrade center

[ ] Better terminal (tabs, anti-aliased fonts, split view)

[ ] Basic GNU utils (grep, ssh, find)

Concerning your second item: I'm not sure how it compares, but there's chocolatey: https://chocolatey.org/

Concerning #4 there's Console2, ConEmu, and Cmder which is a package with ConEmu.

There are solutions for all but one of the above, which I mention because Brew isn't an Apple driven solution, so I assume you don't mind other decent solutions not provided by Microsoft.

Yes, I am fine with non Microsoft solutions. Chocolatey is good but is very sparse when it comes to packages. Also, it is no match for [brewcask](http://caskroom.io/). Updated my checklist - thanks for the list

Windows had the basic *nix utils (more BSD than GNU) with the SFU/SUA stuff which they killed with Windows 8.

OS X doesn't have a Unified application install/upgrade center.

I get the feeling there was a major overhaul of development and engineering since Windows 8, and this is the result. It reminds me of the reset that was done after the "failure" of Windows Vista.

And there is definitely an underlying tone of "we were wrong, but we're going to fix it" when it comes to the many UI paradigm shifts introduced in Windows 8.

I guess they have OS X envy? Or just putting even more distance between this version and Windows 8? An odd choice.

Apple did it first. Apple also skipped version 9 to go right to "X".

No they didn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_9

Oh I remember the release, but it was a complete bluff/joke. System 9 was really just an incremental update of System 8, but it was given a new number because (a) they were still years away from finishing OS X, which we had been promised for half a decade, and (b) you can charge money if you give the OS a new number.

So nothing have been said about the support lifecycle so far. I wish they could delay Win7's end of mainstream support until after Win10 releases at least. Yes, this includes bumping extended support until 2021.

Why is that important? Windows 7 extended support will provide security patches until january 2020.

Yes, this includes bumping extended support until 2021.

We didn't learn from Windows XP? Extended support is good enough to keep your OS up to date on security patches, if you're using it past the end of extended support that's completely your fault.

The problem is that Win7 did not release until after the end of mainstream support, leaving less than five years to upgrade to it.

Mainstream support means nothing. It still gets patched.

So they made Windows 10 what Windows 8 should have been (I have no idea who made the decision to do that dumb metro thing. But it is a nightmare for anyone). And added things that existed in Linux since 1985?

This is the Microsoft way. Take Vista and Windows 7. With Vista they tried something new. In Windows 7 they fixed it. In 8 they tried something new... and the cycle continues.

Personally I don't mind the start menu being fullscreen. What really bugs me is how I have 2 incompatible desktops. I have my desktop which I have had since Windows 95. I then have some weird application space and jumping between the two is really unintuitive.

My bigger gripe is the name. Windows 10... It's PHP all over again.

Windows 7. Windows 8. Windows 9? No.. far to logical. Lets call it 10. Perhaps because it is 10 years since 95? I don't know. Still feels wrong.

Like PHP

PHP 3 PHP 4 PHP 5 PHP 7...............

> Perhaps because it is 10 years since 95?

Try 20 years since 95.

95 -> 98 -> 2000 -> XP -> Vista -> 7 -> 8 -> 10 do you see anything logical in the entire progression. I kind of get it what they were saying from 8 to 10 jump, that we are making a leap with this version over the previous one - because of the whole "universal" unification of devices of various form factors.

Unlike many people here, I do not know the "pulse of average people", so I really do not know how this will play out.

Win2000 was more for business and a successor of WinNT.

WinME was the successor to Win98SE and it was absolute trash.

> 95 -> 98 -> 2000 -> XP -> Vista -> 7 -> 8 -> 10 do you see anything logical in the entire progression.

Well, no, but the progression of the DOS-based line from 3.1 on is 3.x -> 95 -> 98 -> 98SE -> Me -> <end of line>

The NT line is NT 3.1 -> NT 3.5 -> NT 4.0 -> 2000 (which was NT 5.0 in betas) -> XP -> Vista -> 7 -> 8 -> 8.1 -> 10

If you assume that the 2000 -> XP -> Vista series conceals two major and one minor version, then the rest of the numbers make sense (until 10).

20 years since 95 :)

PHP 6 was a real project, that a lot of people spent a lot of time working on (and writing books about). Just because the number was never used for a release doesn't mean it didn't exist.

>And added things that existed in Linux since 1985

has Linux existed since 1985 :-) ?

No, but GNU and X have. X got virtual desktops in 1989.

>> And added things that existed in Linux since 1985

I not sure if you are being snarky or something else but I am sure Linux was not there in 1985 and comparing Linux from 1995 to Windows 10 shows an absolute lack of understanding of Operating Systems.

No Linux didn't exist, but workspaces did.

Man that start menu is getting huge and complex. I really didn't miss is in the brief time I spent with Windows 8, but I guess enough people did to make them completely backpedal.

Lol! Where is Windows 9?

They started making it and it went wrong. Don't mention it to them; it's still a sensitive topic.

Windows 8.1 was 9. Or not?

RT = 9?

Why did Windows got skip to 10? Because seven ate nine!

They might as well start numbering based on the Fibonacci sequence and go from Windows 8 to Windows 13.

They should have just gone with Windows 11.

Should have brand it Windows X 10.0.

Reading the comments made me laugh so hard... Was hilarious! Thanks guys and thanks MS!

I want it. Looks quite good.

Hope os disk space usage will become sensible and winsxs is fixed or gone.

Doesn;t seem like anything new at all. More like Tweaks to Windows 8.

Such a backpedal from Windows 8's metro. Windows 7 almost made the title bars non ugly and now we're back to Windows 95 style title bars.

> Windows 7 almost made the title bars non ugly and now we're back to Windows 95 style title bars.

That's like, your opinion, man.

Make up your mind HN. Either you love my comment or you hate it. Let's not have any of this upvote-and-downvote-to-0-karma stuff.

HN users don't share one mind, each has their own.

These minds don't always agree.

Personally, those toolbars looked like something 15 year-old me created the first time I opened Photoshop.

Still not open source.

2013 April Fools: http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613504/microsoft-windows/m...

Nice find! I was actually quite excited about "Windows 9". Now that it's called Windows 10 I get this feeling of political bullshit within Microsoft and some higher ups not knowing what they are doing and demanding it be called Win 10. I just kind of have to laugh at this number jump.

Windows 9: The Missing Floppies

or The Missing Eloppies

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