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Comment by Someone1234 | Hacker News Reader

Random question:

If you had dual citizenship (e.g. Canadian + US), do you even need to tell a bank about your US citizenship when opening an account?

Can't you just open it as if you were a Canadian only? Even your US SSN wouldn't be associated with it, so for all the US G and the bank know you're just someone with the same name and birthday.

As a random aside: The US Gov is practically the only country in the world who tries to collect income tax from US citizens living abroad. The fact that Americans who move away have to file US tax returns for the remainder of their life is bonkers.

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> If you had dual citizenship (e.g. Canadian + US), do you even need to tell a bank about your US citizenship when opening an account?

If they bank (or its parent) wants to be able to do business in the US, yes.

This is part of the same overreach as insisting data resident in an Irish data centre, belonging to an Irish entity, is subject to the US courts in violation of Irish and EU law.

That's not a good analogy. Microsoft is not really an Irish entity just because it owns an Irish subsidiary. Microsoft has a valid argument, but omitting the fact of the parent entity being American is disingenuous.

Actually it is. Or has the internet done away with the concept of law of the land?

> As a random aside: The US Gov is practically the only country in the world who tries to collect income tax from US citizens living abroad. The fact that Americans who move away have to file US tax returns for the remainder of their life is bonkers.

Hm, I can somewhat understand that? If I was moving out of Germany and got into trouble abroad, I would expect (and receive) help from the German consulate/government. Paying at least some taxes for that seems reasonable, as long as double taxation and all that is avoided.

That's not how that works.

If you get into trouble within a country where you have citizenship, another country where you also have citizenship won't intervene.

So for example, if you were a citizen in the US and Canada, and got into trouble in Canada the US would not assist you. However if you were on holiday in Canada or even a permanent resident then they would.

See Part III bullet 5:

http://germany.usembassy.gov/acs/dual_nationality/

That is pretty standard international practice. That countries won't interfere with another country's interactions with its own citizens (regardless of the source of citizenship).

The US-UK got into quite an international spat a few years ago when the UK tried to intervene after a dual UK-US citizen got sentenced to death in the US.

True, but the grandparent did not say a word about dual citizenship, merely about Americans who moved abroad. I can understand issues arising from dual citizenship and I am personally not a fan of that being even an option to people, in part due to these issues.

I imagine it's more of a "check this box to verify you are not a US citizen" system. The bank could then charge your account fees if you lied and they had to deal with the IRS.

I actually think the US tax return laws are reasonable -- there have to be some obligations for citizens to go along with the rights they have.

> there have to be some obligations for citizens to go along with the rights they have

US Citizens abroad have no real legal rights.

edit: All the downvoters want to weigh in on exactly what a US citizen living outside of the US gains in terms of "rights?"

The right to return to the US and live there permanently, for one.

But US citizens living abroad have to file tax returns even when they don't exercise that right. They could live abroad for the remainder of their life and have to file (under IRS rules).

That seems like a very flimsy argument for why US nationals abroad have to file tax returns.

You didn't specify "what rights do they exercise", just what rights do they have.

If I have a second house that I never use I still have to pay tax on it. The tax man doesn't care whether I use it or not.

The US gov will make substantial efforts to help you if you're caught in a war zone. That's a big plus if you live or travel to dangerous areas. I'm a Canadian, but I've heard stories about people working overseas with other foreign workers. When things get bad the American's are quickly evacuated, other not so quickly.

Also if you ever move to the US you immediately, or at least very quickly, qualify for programs you never paid into. Medicare if you're old, in state tuition if you have kids, etc.

There are many people who do not even know they are US citizens! Every kid of an expat may not know they are actually considered naturalized US citizens. In fact, the US Consulate won't even tell you the truth!

What rights do US expats have to go along with the obligations? The article doesn't seem to mention any.

Two reasons, first off the US government can request banks abroad put a hold on US citizen's money. Secondly if you ever enter the US they can hit you with fines and interest.

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