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Comment by jgrahamc | Hacker News Reader

We all like to perceive ourselves as 100% professionals, real craftsmen, brushing up and sharpening our toolset all the time.

I don't; I'm human.

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The pretentious programmer culture irks me. As a programmer we are not doing a decorated job.

We take pride in making ourselves different. In showing off ourselves as informal, as rule-breakers. "No, we will come to office at 3 PM. In half-pants." We perceive non-programmer employees as mere mortals. And, oh, we are so awesome!! We build our own communities, worship our own heroes and immerse ourselves in our own society; instead of the immersing in the actual society we live in.

Not a programmer here, though sitting on the fence a bit - please remember that many programmers faced abuse and were ridiculed during their school years for their general attitude and their passion. Ever heard the words dork/nerd/geek? They weren't that trendy a few years ago.

If its about explaining the attitude of forming their own cool hangout, I do agree with you. But I don't buy that an attitude inspired by revenge is justified because they were abused.

Their own "cool hangout"? I'll let you in! The secret handshake goes like this:

Open your right hand, palm down.

Make a fist.

Now let your middle/long/tall finger extend.

Rotate your hand 180deg clockwise.

Bend your wrist upward.

Congrats. Welcome.

Why should we care if it's justified? Was the abuse justified?

Because love is the only way forward. And I don't say that out of altruism. Hatred will consume and embitter a person.

There are people who have suffered far greater injustices than being bullied in school and were resilient enough to maintain a generally positive disposition that serves them well. There are also privileged individuals who never faced anything most people would consider a real problem and yet are extremely cynical and bitter at the world as they see it.

Setting all judgement aside, what is the better way to live solely for oneself?

Does one live solely for oneself?

You're misunderstanding that which you call "pretentious programmer culture".

I show up at (0700-1200) or maybe whenever the meeting starts. I wear jeans or shorts. I leave at 5 if nobody has a reason to keep me there || I'm not interested anymore. I'm available the rest of the time for a quick fix or it's interesting.

If I'm awake and I can wave my magic wand and make a coworker's life easier, why not? I'm never very far. Because computer, network.

Non-programmers are mere mortals. So am I. Maybe I'm awesome, maybe you're awesome. Not knowing one way or the other I try to satisfy myself with the idea that, eh, we probably don't completely suck. Go us!

The community you think we should all belong to, the heroes you think we should worship, and the society you say we live in: Who's the pretentious one here?

I am not generalizing programmers. I am commenting on the culture which is unfaithfully becoming a hallmark of true programmer. The problem with culture is that you can remove the core values (that you work hard) and still flaunt the culture to pretend that you are a part of that group. Just like you can dress up and act like a rich person without being rich.

Working hard was a core value of the programmer culture? When?

I have a better sense of your frustration now and I suggest you learn to live with it or let it go. There isn't a "true programmer". If there is, I have no idea what it means.

"that you work hard" is not a core value of my culture. Couldn't have been removed, never was. I'm all about the Slack. My Slack comes from midnight hotfixes, finding and fixing that bug, adding a useful feature with as little effort as possible, learning something that'll make me better at something I care about, using what I know to help a friend (coworker?) in need.

It's actually a part of this culture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic

Working hard for little reward used to be seen as a sign of your devotion to God.

We build our own communities, worship our own heroes and immerse ourselves in our own society; instead of the immersing in the actual society we live in.

Everyone does that. There's no "actual society" besides the one composed of smaller groups immersed in their own reality.

Exactly. Constant focus on a single thing is a recipe for burnout. 'Downtime', whether that's a hobby, exercise, cooking, or watching mindless TV, is a good thing. Humans need time to rest their brains; every person who has described themselves this way (and actually appeared to do it) has been miserable IME.

Never apologise for having a life.

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