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Comment by NotOscarWilde | Hacker News Reader

> To help ensure a consistent experience, Android One devices will receive the latest versions of Android directly from Google. So you’ll get all the latest features, up-to-date security patches, and peace of mind knowing your stuff is always backed up.

This rings a bitter note for me -- I bought a Galaxy Nexus a while after it came out and I was really surprised how quickly Google discontinued updates for it. Is it expected that "the next five billion" will also buy a new phone every two years?

To quote Google:

> Galaxy Nexus, which first launched two years ago, falls outside of the 18-month update window when Google and others traditionally update devices.

(I still own the phone and I have the latest Android because of Cyanogenmod, but again, this is not something that can be recommended to "the next five billion".)

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> I bought a Galaxy Nexus a while after it came out and I was really surprised how quickly Google discontinued updates for it.

This is likely because it used a TI OMAP processor. TI left the mobile field, fired thousands of engineers and instead focuses on industrial/automotive. OMAP was dead in the water shortly after that phone appeared. I'm guessing that probably meant no support or driver updates.

It's funny because the Moto 360 runs an OMAP 3 processor and Motorola is still owned by Google until the sale goes through, so it's not like Google refuses to use or update OMAP processors anymore.

This is mostly why the Galaxy Nexus no longer gets updates.

The Galaxy Nexus was also born from a not-so-great partnership with Samsung, who was at the time maneuvering into a position to compete directly with Google (e.g. Tizen).

I bought a Moto G specifically for its claim of staying up-to-date (and some other cool features), so I hope that I'll get major updates for years to come, lest I have to go to Cyanogen.

People in this thread are shocked, SHOCKED! that people would keep a phone for more than two years. Except for my gaming habit, my 5+ desktop would still have its original components, and my laptop is from 2010. Replace the battery, and it's a champ.

Annual hardware upgrades shouldn't be a "thing" unless desired.

I agree, but the hardware manufacturers have a very strong incentive to get you to buy new hardware. As long as the device makers have any hand in releasing software updates for their devices, software updates will be a problem....

*Receives automatic Android updates for up to 2 years.

http://www.android.com/one/

I guess the poor can replace their phone every two years like the rich.

Or survive on a slightly older version of Android?

It's not about having the latest & greatest, it's about having a secure device. Imagine hundreds of millions of devices with security holes no longer being patched after 2 years.

At least XP was supported for over a decade. Having a device as expensive as a phone (for the market) no longer patched after 2 years isn't a good idea.

Seriously, i think many people don't care about the Android version they are running and won't care to check for updates even if they are available.

> won't care to check for updates even if they are available.

At least in 4.4 you automatically get a notification when an update is available

Yes, but i think this "i want the latest update" argument is much exagerated on HN, but not so much important for Joe User. My gf just bought a cheap android phone and i told her that it won't receive any updates but she didn't care. Offering to check for updates (the nerd that i am) she still refused. She just doesn't want to be bothered with it. I suppose that is true for many people. And, to be honest, Android didn't have truely interesting new features for several releases. I own my google phone, and it's nice for me to be on the latest releases all the time, but truth be told i couldn't tell if my phone ran 4.0 or 4.4.

Ah. Yeah possibly, if people are approaching it like they used to approach phones: what's there is what will work.

Personally I come to smartphones from a x86 PC point of view, so not being able to reflash/reinstall whatever OS I like is a disaster already, to say nothing of no OS updates :).

But on phones not targeted to enthusiasts this is probably not a problem.

Isn't this situation rapidly changing? A few years ago, people wouldn't dream of 'installing apps'. But now, many non technical people install apps. In fact, I know many non technical people who are more eager to install apps. A developer might think, ah I'll write a program to do this and do that. Non techies only think in terms of what apps can I do some job.

I bought HTC desire for my wife couple of years ago inspite of her insisting she won't have use for a big phone. Now, she uses it for Whatsapp, Facebook, Pinterest etc. In fact, she seems to know more about these than I do some times.

I'm not sure how installing currently available apps compares to installing future core OS updates, can you explain what you mean?

There are two forms of this argument. Many people don't care about new features but everyone needs to care about security updates and, eventually, a relatively recent browser. If they don't care yet, give them one major exploit and they will next time.

Many Android users have a distinctly inferior web experience because they're running a copy of WebKit from 2011 or so but they'd be perfectly okay with an upgraded browser which has the same UI but supports the more recent features supported by the sites they use. Unlike the app situation, this is more noticeable because sites upgrade outside of your control and Android's fragmentation means that many sites won't make it a major priority when deciding whether to backport or simply disable new features on older devices.

Many things (namely google apps, play services, some security patches) have been separated from the core OS, leaving only deep changes to the OS update.

Ya, the people don't care and that's the problem for us developers.

App development sure is easy if large percentage of the user base are on the latest version of the OS, Apple does win here.

Stop supporting them after two years and they'll have to upgrade.

I completely agree. The point is even worse for "the next five billion" because they are the people that buy the previous generation phones. No matter what Android One costs, previous generation Android One will cost less and be almost equally useful.

I really feel the right, responsible thing to make the next five billion secure is to support previous generation phones as long as the phones are still the same functionally.

Continuing with my Galaxy Nexus comparison: GN is a 2011 phone and it seems nothing is on the horizon for 2015 that's going to make it obsolete -- the new phones look and feel the same as it does.

(I know it's anecdotal, but being Central European, I am the only one in my family with a phone that runs Android 4.0 or higher (no iPhones either) -- they all have either Android 2.0 or pre-OS phones. I say this to stress that people here really do stick with their phones as long as they work.)

The Galaxy Nexus is a special case, because its SoC producer (TI) stepped out of the smartphone market and apparently the drivers were closed source. The Nexus 4 and 5 will probably fare better.

Although in contrast to e.g. Safari on Android, Chrome does get continuous updates, even on older phones. But, of course, the general point is still true - most Android phones are updated for a miserably short period. Cyanogenmod deserves a lot of credit of lengthening the lifespan of devices.

Didn't you get the memo? This is the Brave New World where everything runs in Javascript or on Google's servers. Security? Isn't that one of those 'privacy' things that terrorists like? </s>

To be fair, Android One's "up to 2 years" is a huge improvement over the typical update policy in this price bracket: not in a million years.

It also happens to be the EU's consumer-warranty period.

hardware warranty does not mean software updates

The EU warranty regulations say that a device should function properly for two years. So, the scope is definitely wider than just hardware warranty.

Well, in this case, 1st/2nd generation devices do function properly with Android 2.3/3.0 - you just can't install some apps on them...

He'll have to, unless he prefers to choose Firefox OS

Isn't it likely that two years from now the price for a new phone will have dropped? So it could go from ~$100USD to maybe ~$70USD. Even if you upgraded something like an iPhone every 5 years it would cost more though. I could buy these for 10 years at $100 and still only pay $500, which is about what a high end phone costs that lasts half of that 10 year span (maybe).

Anyway, I think a lot of the complaints about not being able to update your OS stem from iPhones turning into bricks.

cough iPhone 4S, released in 2011, can be upgraded to iOS 8 cough

Just sayin'

because the phone explodes automatically after these 2 years ?

In countries where Android One is targeted, Data is expensive.

Also the main target for these phones: People that are not used to Tech (Including people who never went to school).

I don't think Auto updates even for two years is a good. Most of the target audience would not appreciate a Major Upgrade of OS.

In the India launch at least, Android One is launching with FREE mobile data for OS updates and Play store downloads.

> Is it expected that "the next five billion" will also buy a new phone every two years?

Absolutely! The whole phone market is one huge study in planned obsolescence. It's doing even better than cars in that respect. And the tablet market isn't far behind.

And probably for the better in case of mobile phones. Can't say the same for cars personally.

It's just a reflection of the state of maturity/pace of development of the industry. I remember when people used to replace their computers once ever two/three years. Nowadays, it's more like 5-7 years.

On the contrary, the main reason iPad sales have stalled appears to be that they have such long useful lives compared to other types of computer. My wife's father has my old iPhone 3GS and my wife is using my old iPhone 4, four years old and now running iOS 7, though when my contract expired shell get herself a 6. I'll stick with my 5 as I usually cary an iPad so the larger screen isn't as much use to me. These things last for ages.

I honestly don't know his long other peoples devices last or are used, but mine have so far had pretty decent useful lives compared to most desktop computers I've owned.

At least you have the option of installing Cyanogenmod.

Look at the iphone. The old ones you can throw away. There are security holes that have not been patched and there is no alternative OS you can run on them.

I have an old iPhone 4. I bought it when it was released four years ago and the latest supported iOS version is 7.1.2, released this summer. That’s four years of support, which is quite decent IMHO.

I, too, have an iPhone 4. However I never updated to ios 7 because by Gods I liked the skeuomorphic paradigm. I think about 2 months ago was the first time I hit a roadblock that made me want to update.

I have an iPhone 3G, that was released six years ago, and the latest supported OS is 4.1.2. Not that it is usable with this version, latest usable version was 3.x.

It inhabits the drawer for several years already.

I posted this elsewhere on the thread, but in case you missed it, you might find that this project breathes new life into that old device. http://www.whited00r.com/features?lang=en

Thanks, I noticed it. Meanwhile, I ordered a new battery for the phone, so I can play with it during weekend :)

iPhones get updates for 4 years.

My 4S will get updated to iOS 8 (it came with iOS 5).

> there is on alternative OS you can run on them

There is Whited00r. I have an old loaner 3GS that runs snappily on it. Since Apple is quite good at supporting older devices and an iPhone 4 is still (for a few more days) able to run the newest iOS, projects like whited00r remain obscure compared to the cyanogenmod.

Wow, thanks for this, I didn't even know it exists!!!

99% of people won't bother so it doesn't help developers. I hope Google supports phones for about 4 years. My Nexus One lost official support after 18 months.

I currently believe the viability of cyanogenmod is a myth and that its irresponsible to perpetuate it as an option. I dearly wish to be proven wrong.

When I tried to find cyanogenmod images for mainstream Samsung models, I could not find anything viable to make it worth even trying. Some users will report it works but the majority have show-stopper issues with one or more of: wifi, battery life, stability, phone calls, gps, performance etc.

I suspect its unrealistic to ever expect an open source project to provide an up to date production ready image of an OS and closed drivers for 100s of different hardware models without substantial community interest and commercial funding.

Out of warranty mobile phones are just too complex, too fragmented and too niche a need to service properly.

While the OS remains open source, Cyanogen Inc has venture funding and at least one phone[1] comes pre-installed with the OS. So there is interest in maintaining a production ready image.

I don't think the complexity/fragmented argument holds when a similar situation with GNU/Linux exists, which supports many, many permutations of hardware.

[1] http://oneplus.net/one

He probably was referring to the Galaxy Nexus, which I assume has decent enough (probably perfect) CM support. Like you say, achieving compatibility with every piece of Android hardware out there seems unlikely, mostly because of proprietary binary drivers.

I don't see how that makes CM unviable, though. You just have to factor in CM compatibility into your buying decision. That means either basing a decision on past experience (ie. based on previous models, any new Nexus hardware -- if there is any -- should be ok), or waiting a bit after new hardware is released to see how it turns out. Of course the latter option is pretty painful for most of us.

It's too bad Google doesn't seem to care about any of this, though. It would have been nice if Android One devices came with guaranteed access to/documentation of the proprietary driver blobs, or, better yet, open source drivers for all components, or anything in that vein. But I think we're long past expecting stuff like that from Google.

> When I tried to find cyanogenmod images for mainstream Samsung models, I could not find anything viable to make it worth even trying. Some users will report it works but the majority have show-stopper issues with one or more of: wifi, battery life, stability, phone calls, gps, performance etc.

I wonder if the mainstream models you're talking about are the ones with locked bootloaders. It would be interesting to know which ones are more likely to get attention than others.

Only with the upcoming iOS 8 release have Apple ended support for the iPhone 4 (the 4S remains supported), a phone released over four years ago.

I'd say that's pretty good going.

But how much did the iphone 4 cost? If you pay $800 over 8 years thats $100 dollars a year. This thing only costs $100 every two years.

Of course the TCO of a low-end smartphone is going to be considerably less than that of a high-end model.

Nevertheless, no one is forcing Apple to pour their profits into extended support for older models.

If anything, the incentive is to end support sooner and push consumers to trade in their old devices for newer models.

Well, that high end phone will become low end phone in two years, or even faster if you can't update its OS. So, in this case we are comparing, 2 years of high end phone + 8 years of low end phone against 10 years of low end phone for half the price.

I don't really see what point you are trying to make.

Very few people keep the same phone for ten years; most people upgrade every few years, such that their high-end phone never becomes deemed a low-end unit.

If you're particularly cost-conscious, and don't see the added value of a high-end phone, then buy a low-end phone.

My iphone 3g loaned to me by a friend after my wife dropped two Android G1s (yes, really. She loves the keyboard. LOL) is barely useable. It had IOS 4? 5? and was sluggish to the point of frustration. I can't help but feel the same may happen to my ipad 2 when IOS 8 comes out. On the other hand Google stopped updating my Nexus One with Android 2.x on the device. Sure you could run a hacked port of 4.x but again it was sluggish. Your choices are semi-usable and secure and fast but dangerous.

There's really no motivation for Google to keep issuing security patches for Android 2.x when there's a $129 4.x device floating around. And Android One does mention making the devices affordable. It isn't exactly green tossing a phone ever two years, but if they're priced like a commodity at least isn't as teeth-grindingly troublesome either.

Did your phone stop working? It's annoying but your phone is perfectly usable even without the latest Android version.

Perfectly usable, maybe, but there are security fixes in each and every version of Android.

A desktop browser from 2012 is absolutely full of security holes, no matter which one you look at. There is zero reason to believe mobile browsers would fare any better (and they haven't, so far).

More and more people do their banking on their mobile devices. And Google's solution to the password problem is a shared secret on your mobile. So, is it really usable? It would be a matter of perspective, but I would argue a no.

Well did you get the international edition? Because I did, and that was even worse. Samsung managed the updates and had their own branch of Android for the phone. It both lagged the Google version and stopped at 4.2.x, which was terrible because the Galaxy Nexus suffered dearly from the flash fragmentation issue which was only fixed in 4.3.x.

I managed to flash the phone to the Google branch and get it to 4.3.x after being stuck on dog slow phone for over 6 months, made it usable again.

Hmm.. this "next five billion" market will hardly ever connect to the Internet, even if they do, OS upgrades might get pretty expensive for their data plan.

If Google could make really cheap quality Android phones that this segment can buy every two years, it will be a quite good accomplishment( or if Google could partner with carriers to offer these updates for free then it will be even more awesome ).

They talk about this:

In an effort to reduce data costs, if you have an Airtel SIM card, you’ll get these software updates for free for the first six months. As part of this same Airtel offer, you’ll also be able to download up to 200MB per month worth of your favorite apps (that’s about 50 apps overall) from Google Play—all without counting toward your mobile data usage.

All those off-contract phones have got to end up somewhere...

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