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> Android is still a terrible, clunky piece of junk, even with so many years to copy Apple.

Not in the last few years, not even close. Android is pretty amazing right now, I love it.

I'm old enough to remember to spell, and remember when the first Mac came out.

The response has always been the same; one segment pointing out problems, another pointing out how "visionary" the new thing is.

If you are as old as you claim to be, and still fall foul of corporate machinations - then "sucks to be you". Next you'll tell us what your current corporate master told you to say.

There a many things wrong with what you wrote; the most glaring is: "haven't seen anything innovative from Google since 2001".

Later you go on to say, "unless you count gmail".

1. gmail wasn't released until 2004

2. the whole thing called "ads" wasn't available until 2001.

3. Android copied iOS. Which copied Windows. Which copied MacOS. Which copied GEM. Which copied x/PARC. Someone once said "good artists copy, great artists steal".

4. I guess you keep missing the news about Google's moonshot project (loom, wing, self-driving cars).

If you feel condemmed to define yourself by the applications and services that a particular company makes available (be it Google or Microsoft, or Apple), please understand that you are a shill.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2013/08/on-geek-culture/

Neither Superman, nor Google, nor Apple will save you.

Save your energy.

Counting Google's unreleased moonshot products as innovation seems like counting one's chickens before they hatch. It is easy to innovate in the abstract, much harder to fully realize a vision in the form of a product.

Innovation is innovation. Just because an innovation isn't a success in the market place doesn't mean it was not innovative.

Correction:

> Just because an innovation is only a research project*

To which I will have to vehemently disagree with you. Otherwise we'll have to start celebrating science fiction authors for their "innovation."

Science fiction authors don't build things. The driverless cars are real, and they work. The Loon balloons are delivering Internet access to remote regions right now.

For some definition of "work." They are mostly fiction. Unless a "driverless car" is supposed to only really be driverless on the freeway.

The point is that actually shipping a successful product to consumers is the true mark of innovation. Anything else is research.

Providing your own definition of words is a poor way to argue.

This argument is about the definition of the word "innovation." Definitions of words are important, and worth arguing over.

"unreleased products" are definitionally neither successes nor failures in the marketplace.

So what part of our culture don't we buy?

I don't think iOS copied windows. It doesn't support sizeable overlapping windows. Sure, it displays text and images, but then that isn't really copying Windows is it?

Also, I don't think that the parent commenter said how visionary the products were. He/she merely highlighted the common responses to Apple's releases.

And before you label me a "shill" (is this Slashdot...?!??!!!!?!??!), I am a happy Windows/Mac/Android developer, and I don't have an iPhone.

> There a many things wrong with what you wrote; the most glaring is: "haven't seen anything innovative from Google since 2001". Later you go on to say, "unless you count gmail". 1. gmail wasn't released until 2004 2. the whole thing called "ads" wasn't available until 2001. 3. Android copied iOS. Which copied Windows. Which copied MacOS. Which copied GEM. Which copied x/PARC. Someone once said "good artists copy, great artists steal". 4. I guess you keep missing the news about Google's moonshot project (loom, wing, self-driving cars).

Ironically you kind of reinforced his point... Ads was in 2001 - that's his claim of most recent innovation from Google unless you count gmail.

You point out gmail was released in 2004, but he's just said he's not counting gmail.

iOS didn't copy windows at all - it was innovative in that it was by far the best mobile operating system UI. Windows didn't have a mobile operating system at the time

Google's research projects aren't products yet - what happens if they cancel them because they're infeasible in 10 years time?

You could have mentioned chrome/android/chromebook/nexus

  Windows didn't have a mobile operating system at the time

I can only assume you're referring to Windows Phone, which was released after iOS. But you've omitted Windows Mobile, which was released in 2000.

So even when competitors come up with products that Apple hasn't created yet, these competitors are still copying Apple's ideas by guessing what Apple will be doing?

You really need to step out of that distortion field for a little while.

In every case someone has said "X is better!" And in every case so far that X has turned out to maybe have some particular features, or better stats for some particular stat, but not to be engineered to the level of the Apple product.

Apple has turned out some turkeys in its time, but people only seem to remember the highlights.

I haven't seen anything innovative from Google since 2001

That's some powerfully strong blinders you've willingly put on there. And calling maps part of Gmail? Seriously?

When was the last time you used Android?

Very informative, thanks. It made me chuckle when you said that Metro UI was innovative - it really was. Unfortunately, for some of the use-cases they put forward, it isn't really suited or very good.

I mean, on a Mac how many people use Launchpad?

> I mean, on a Mac how many people use Launchpad?

I do when I forget the name of an app. Pinching all five fingers together on a trackpad is super easy. But then again, I also use the Dashboard :)

Ah I see. I shouldn't assume that nobody uses it. I turned off the Dashboard shortcut and made my F keys work like F keys. I typically use Spotlight to launch anything, although there was a time when I used to use Ctrl-F3 to take focus to the Dock, and then open the Applications folder.

I might start using Launchpad more. The transition is pretty!

For the most part, I agree with you... except Android L has me curious, as it seems Google finally does understand operating systems and have built a cohesive whole. Funnily enough, Android Wear plays into that, and despite being someone who uses Apple everything has me considering an Android phone and a Moto 360. It's certainly exciting times no matter where you sit though!

I'd argue that doing Google Maps in JavaScript was innovative. At the time, it blew me away that JS was usable for so complex use cases.

One thing that Google does really innovate in: releasing products to keep up with the competition (typically web-based), then letting them be unmaintained, fester, and then terminating them much to the chagrin of the users.

That's innovative! Apple certainly doesn't do that! Hah!

(I jest, I jest. GMail and Maps have been going for years, and are pretty great , although I don't like the new UI on maps - things pop up from all over the place and the UI elements are teeny weeny. But yes, I'm a happy Google/Android user thanks).

EDIT: Hey! This was meant as a joke! Don't take it too seriously! Don't downvote me to oblivion! Please! Have mercy and compassion!

EDIT: Again! It's a joke! It's a joke! Such downvoting enthusiasm.