The Man Who's Beating Google | Hacker News Reader

The Man Who's Beating Google

forbes.com

33 pointsraju27 comments

Honestly, it makes me sick that Google/Microsoft/Yahoo play along with Chinese censorship. I always feel like companies have at least a bit of moral obligation to do right with what they achieve. I know China is a gigantic market, but I would hope there are people out there who want to make a difference in the world. Maybe they have to play along in order to make change, I don't know.

Google blocks results for one-third fewer search terms than Baidu

Baidu sounds like the perfect match for China.

Agreed. I was willing to buy the 'do no evil' line for a while but after the tianmen square issue I changed it to 'business as usual'.

I assume you're referring to the supposed lack of Tank Man photos on the Chinese version of Google Images. That's not the case: http://images.google.cn/images?q=tiananmen+square

Also, it's inevitable that the name Tiananmen Square conjures up different associations in China and the west. Similarly, I imagine that Waco is a city to a Texan, but to me it's a siege.

The difference is that information is more freely available.

First result in google cn, a wonderful recount of the history of the square: http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/31133067.html

I assume you're referring to the supposed lack of Tank Man photos on the Chinese version of Google Images. That's not the case: http://images.google.cn/images?q=tiananmen+square

Compare the results. There is 1 photo, compare that to http://images.google.com/images?q=tiananmen+square

Maybe this is a know your audience thing, maybe its censorship, I don't know.

Even if Google isn't explicitly censoring it, Chinese censorship as a whole is going to severely limit either the knowledge of the 1989 protests, the number of websites that are willing to mention it, or both. That will inevitably have an effect on Google's results.

I love the fact the .com version suggests searching for "tiananmen square _massacre_".

While there is definitely censorship around these events, outside expectations for what the [Tiananmen Square] query should return aren't the right standard.

To the outside world, the 1989 clashes are synonymous with the Square -- indeed, saying "Tiananmen Square" means the clashes as much as the place. But for China, it's a national plaza with a much longer history.

One might compare the [national mall] in Washington DC. There have been many large assemblies there, though the first page of Google image results doesn't show any of the mall filled with people -- an image many of us have seen, many times. (There's at least one such image on the second page.)

If there were at some point some focal "national mall incident", we would expect images of such incident to rise in [national mall] results -- but not necessarily dominate it completely.

There is exactly 1 'tank man' photo. It is in the first position. And its source host?

tieba.baidu.com

Baidu! The incumbent who's supposedly enjoying an advantage from their more enthusiastic implementation of censorship!

I suspect that is not an 'organic' image placement, but a hand-tuned shot at Baidu.

http://images.google.cn/images?hl=zh-CN&sa=1&q=%E5%8...

June 4 incident in chinese, as they call it like that there... I don't see any picture related to it.

Right, compare with http://images.google.com/images?q=tiananmen+square and spot the 7 differences.

From what I understand, Google makes a clear distinction that "don't be evil" is not synonymous with "do no evil." One's about intent, the other is absolute. The test is whether they correct course when they discover that they had been doing evil.

Weasel words (googles, not yours). If you are going to pretend to take the moral high ground you should make a stand on such issues.

I think it's wrong to expect corporations to have more moral obligation than my own government.

I am annoyed at the tone of both corporate and government involvement in China. I don’t expect things to change, but for some reason it still bothers me.

Hang on a second tho'. Western governments can and regularly do stop tech being exported.

"Corporation" and "moral" are two words that don't work in one sentence.

There is a good movie about this issue: http://www.thecorporation.com/

The same generally applies to "government" and "moral".

There are lots of movies about this issue.

Just because they don't, doesn't mean we shouldn't.

And I think it's wrong to expect corporations and government to have more moral obligation that the citizens, after all they are composed of the same people. If people want cheap goods which are made in china and higher revenues and profits from their companies the corporations and government are going to bend over backwards, because that's what the people want. If all people stop using Google, etc. and stop buying chinese products, write to their senators and congressmen then corporations and government will do something, till then nothing will happen.

maybe google thinks that economic investment will do more social good in china than just ignoring the market.

How are companies supposed to do business in a country that won't let them? When China says "Sorry, you broke our laws, we're confiscating all your assets here.", what is Google going to do?

Are you equally sickened that Google doesn't do business in Cuba?

Maybe they have to play along in order to make change

I think this is often the case.

It's only fair to point out that Google/Microsoft/Yahoo also play along with European censorship. Part of doing business is abiding by the law of the country you operate in.

One thing that is clear isolating China, or not doing business with the Chinese because you have different principles isn't going to change anything. What seems to have influenced China most is trade. These companies are better off in China, than outside: then at least they can attempt to influence policy.

There is a difference between showing dislike for operating practices and either breaking the law, or pulling out entirely. No doubt there are profits, but we have seen in the West how the internet can change government. The technology is not going away and as such gives me great hope in the future, even in closed states.

Nothing like having the support of the government and a national firewall to block your competitors.

Here's the article in print version (all pages one page) http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/1005/technology-baidu-robi...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com