Motorola Announces the New Moto X | Hacker News Reader

Motorola Announces the New Moto X

anandtech.com

81 pointsamardeep74 comments

That sucks, the Moto X was the only high-end Android of a reasonable size.

So what's left for someone who wants an Android with good specs, not too big, and not tainted by manufacturer poop?

God, yes. I chose the Moto X earlier this year exactly because of its screen size. At 4.7 inches, it's still a little too large for my tastes. I think 4 inches is ideal. But 5.2 is way too big, and I won't be upgrading to the Gen 2 Moto X.

I think those of us with human-sized hands have to take a step down to mid-range phones to get a decent sized phone, even if we're willing to spend the money for high-end specs. I was really hoping Motorola would corner the reasonably-sized market, but I guess they're just jumping on the phablet train with everybody else.

count me on as well.

i endured with my nexus one until last year (4yrs!) because no flag ship phone could be used with one hand.

i finally gave up for a moto x and i can barely press the top left corner without moving my hold.

I find this comment confusing. Do you hold the phone in your palm?

I use my fingers to support my Nexus 5 and have no trouble reaching any of the corners.

I'd look to Sony's compact series. They seem to go for small-ish displays without compromising on specs (see both the already released Z1 as well as the upcoming Z3)

i looked. it fits the bill on size only.

but on the usa they cost too much. are not easy to flash custom roms and are full of boat on the factory one.

Unlike other manufacturers, the international editions of Sony phones have all of the HSPA+ and LTE bands to work well on AT&T and T-Mobile and these days you can get back the extra upfront cost of buying an unlocked phone with monthly savings. International unlocked phones also generally qualify for Sony's boot loader unlock program. And you often can even get a good deal from a SE Asian gray market exporter.

Motorola G has not the best specs but it's handy, small, clean and has a good value/price ratio.

The new moto G is also 5"

Looks like a decent share of the comments here do complain about the size, I always though I was the exception since the market seems to adjust to bigger sizes every year... I'm happy I'm not alone.

Every few months or so I spend an hour looking for a good and compact android phone to replace my Galaxy S II and the options are always very limited, I'm just hoping the Z3 compact will not have major flaws now...

Honestly, pretty much only small good phone right now seems to be Z3 Compact.

There's also the recently announced Samsung Alpha (released later this year).

Yep, 4.7" display. Quite a small battery though (1860 mAh).

http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/05/samsung-galaxy-alpha-hand...

I'm quite happy with my Nexus 4.

and me with my Moto X, but if/when it becomes too old or breaks, I'm not sure what my options will be.

I don't understand why they thought that Moto X's most important feature - its size - was something they could get rid of.

Hopefully this tanks used Moto X v1 prices?

Sigh, another disposable phone with the planned obsolesce due to kick in at around 700 charges.

You'd think if they bothered to let you have a dozen designer backplates they might got the extra mile and let you change the battery.

I just read the iFixIt article on changing a Moto X (current model) battery. It requires 25 steps and 5 specialty tools such as a spudger, a T3 torx screwdriver, micro sim extractor, etc. You have to heat the back to weaken the adhesive. It's hard to imagine a service center doing all this manual work at a fee low enough to make it worthwhile.

I'd like a phone where you can pop out the battery in 2 seconds, like a typical point-and-shoot camera can. For that matter, I want a memory slot as per a camera. I can live with an extra couple of mm of thickness and have a less-sexy handset in exchange for vastly expanded longevity and capacity. Am I in such a tiny minority?

Buy mid range phones from Aliexpress or similar. My latest phone was about $250 - a Kingzone K1 -, and is an octa-core MTK based phone (so per core performance is not stellar, but more than good enough unless you're doing heavy 3D stuff), 2GB RAM, 16GB flash, SD card slot, 5.5" 1080p IPS display.

Pretty much all of these phones are thin (7mm or so for my current one), decent to great build quality (my current one has a metal back plate), and easily replaceable battery. Most of them also have dual SIM slots.

There are some things to look out for, like bad sellers and models with poor GPS (MTK phones are notorious for that - my current model works great).

The increased risks and increased hassle if having to deal with returns is more than compensated for by the prices. I'm pretty much expecting to replace my phone up to once a year on average at that price. In practice, my 3 last phones have all been good quality and I've had few problems (GPS being the only issue...)

Lot's of phones still let you change the battery and pop in a memory card. Off the top of my head I know the Samsung S4, S5, S5 mini and Note 3 all let you do that. As does the LG G3 and G2 mini, and I believe the G3 S will as well.

Or you can just bring it to a service station and have it replaced in 45 minutes after three years or so.

Are you sure the battery isn't serviceable?

yes.

also the parent poster is wrong about replaceable backing. they are not.

you can choose between a dozen designs when buying only. and that's it. oh and only on the non developer edition, which is awful.

the developer edition only came in the worst combination ever (white back, black front). they really go the extra mile to annoy customers. a true Google company.

I broke my nexus 5 AND my old nexus 4 in the span of 4 days while traveling in Hong Kong. I am seriously considering getting this when I return to the US later this month.

The only thing that bothers me now is that the nexus 5 is already a little big, and this is even bigger (4.95" vs 5.2"). Unfortunately my hands don't grow as fast as phones anymore.

I wonder if this is something I can get use to though, since everyone in Asia is using giant phones, and I did feel the nexus 4 a little small for the 4 days I was using it again.

Is Google still planning to release a new Nexus phone later this year?

I'm an existing Moto X user. I guess I'm in the minority here. I like it in spite of its small size, not because of it.

The bigger screen on the new model is a good thing, IMO. I can still one-hand most everything and the only thing I need to reach the top left corner for can usually be accomplished with a swipe from the left. Better resolution, more screen real estate, still manageable size. What's not to love?

(If you've got small hands, I feel for ya, but just buy something else. Don't hate on Moto for appealing to the larger market preference.)

If you've got small hands, I feel for ya, but just buy something else.

You mean... normal hands? I have fairly average-sized hands (as determined by the highly scientific method of having compared hand sizes with many friends over the years), and the Nexus 4 with its 4.7" screen is uncomfortably large. I can reach the top left corner with my right thumb, but I always feel like I'm going to drop the phone when I do it.

You chopped off my next sentence which was the point of my post.

Anyway, I just did a run around the office and with a sample of 12, I'm tentatively concluding that I have average-size adult male hands. The way I hold my MotoX, I can hit the top left if I have to. (Again--I wonder how often people actually have to, assuming they know to left swipe for the most common use case.)

Investigating more--without realizing it until now, the way I hold the phone I actually adjust my grip on it to hit the far bottom left. I even adjust my grip slightly for the back button. It's still a one handed thing. You train yourself, withing limits, to adjust as needed. (I'm left-handed. Perhaps I should start complaining that no one designs a UI for us.) It's still very usuable and it's not a big sacrifice if you appreciate a bigger screen, like most people apparently do. If people didn't like bigger screens, manufacturers wouldn't be steadily bumping sizes up. I assume the market (i.e., actual sales) will correct the error when they go too big.

Your next sentence wasn't particularly useful, as there aren't any other choices. If I want what I consider a reasonably-sized phone (~4.2"), I have to settle for something with crap specs.

I use a few apps that poorly implement the top-left button such that left-swiping doesn't do anything. Sigh.

Yeah, just playing with mine, and noting how I readjust my grip to do various things. I just always feel like I'm about to drop my phone when I have to do that.

And I just realized: I've never dropped and broken the screen on a phone until I got my Nexus 4 (which I've broken 3 times). My Nexus One and Nexus S lived happily break-free (well, ok, my S broke because someone [accidentally] violently elbowed it out of my hand, but that's hardly due to the size of the phone).

We'll see if the market "fixes" this. I'm skeptical, as phones have been larger than my preference for at least 2 years now, and they're still growing.

As I alluded to in my first post, if the trend of "bigger is better" doesn't work for you or your hands, I feel for ya. I really do. These are devices we use constantly so it is good to invest time to find something that works well for you. (I'm preaching to the choir here, I'm sure.)

Small flagship phones might be hard to find (although the Moto X was never top-of-the-line in specs either), but they are quality options out there, admittedly more in the 4.7-inch range than 4.2. The just-announced Galaxy Alpha might be one to look at. As is the new Sony Z3 Compact. Probably others too, but I haven't followed the market super-closely. Good luck!

Thanks for the well-wishes. The Z3 Compact ("compact"? really?) is 4.6", but I'm expecting if I want a phone with reasonable specs, I'm going to be stuck with something like that. Oof.

I'm glad to see the bump up to 1080p. I know some people don't care of think it matters, but I would just love this to be standard. It would make things a lot easier on Developers to have only a few different resolutions to worry about.

Shame that some are already moving to a new resolution - 1440p - isn't it? And next year, some will adopt 4k in smartphones. Why would they do that, it doesn't matter. What matters is that they will.

Great, another 5.2 inch phone like everyone else.

the Xperia Z3 Compact looks like a nice option for a hand sized phone: http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/3/6097817/the-xperia-z3-compa... And no, I don't work for Sony.

I find it ridiculous that 4.6" is considered "compact". I clicked the link hoping for something around 4".

It is disappointing that there aren't many small high-end smartphones. Obviously it's more difficult to pack the latest technology in a smaller package. But it seems like it's a market much less flooded than the 5+ inch size phones. Maybe someday companies will start marketing "ultra-phones".

I hope so. I'm old enough to remember the time when smaller meant better, and miniaturization was a sign of progress (Hell, to me the first iPhone, for all its wonders, seemed at the time way too big).

Maybe one day people will re-discover the appeal of the candybar and slim-flip form factors, who knows.

Smaller means better when the thing is big for no conceivable reason. It's not a universal truth. Smaller was better with phones for a long time because the phone was much larger than a the screen, and it didn't need to be. Now, the phone is the screen. And with screens, bigger has always been better. TVs keep getting larger, as well as desktop monitors.

Whether it's for functionality or for status, bigger is better for a lot of things. Phones were the odd duck because the screens were tiny back then.

Good point about screen sizes in general, but perhaps you miss the main appeal of small portable devices (aside from aesthetics alone): portability!

And it matters too for portable screens: otherwise 5" palm pilots, extra-large tablets, or 19" laptops would have been the norm, don't you think?

Not sure I can keep hold of something that big to be honest without dropping it and smashing it.

I think a 4.5 - 4.7 is about my limit.

Observing the sameish discussions over the years, that size limit preference you are talking about seems to be steadily rising.

I'd hypothesize that if you analyzed tweets and comments about screen sizes, the ideal screen size per year would look something like this:

2011: 4.0 inch

2012: 4.3 inch

2013: 4.5 inch

2014: 4.8 inch

2015: 5.0 inch (projected)

2016: (median size for high end phones in 2015)

Eventually we'll get to something that is the most practical in use. I think 4.7 inch is pretty good, but of course I'm biased towards my current phone, and I'll probably update my preference with my next phone.

I'm not buying anything smaller than 5.5" again unless I have to. I love the bigger screen too much. I'd rather go to 6" than back down to 5"...

There's a reason the screen size has kept going up: People keep buying the larger screen models.

Remember when everyone was ridiculing the size of the Note? The it sold unexpectedly high volumes.

As someone who purchased a Note (1) on near release day (technically before release in the UK as I got an unlocked one before most of the contract networks had theirs on tap), I absolutely remember that.

Everyone online and off was claiming that the Note was simply "too big" and how it was a "tablet" and would never "fit in your pocket." But once I physically got the Note in my hands and they had a play, the tune quickly changed (at least for men with larger hands). Plus outside of skinny jeans it absolutely fits in my pockets.

When it came time to upgrade my Note (1), my choice of phones was much wider as almost every flagship had significantly closed the gap (e.g. 4.2-4.5" was the standard when the Note(1) got released (5.3"), but it was 5-5.1" when I had to upgrade).

So when I upgraded I went from the Note (1) to the LG G2, which is a 5.3" to 5.2" change. I didn't really notice the extra 1" but I did notice the significantly smaller brazil on the LG G2 and lighter weight.

If the Note (1) got released in 2014 people wouldn't even notice it as being particularly large. The Note 3 is 5.7"(!) by contrast. That's how far things have come.

I have a Moto X at 4.7 inches and it's a little too big for comfort. It's usable, and you do get used to the size, but I can't reach the top of the screen from every hand position. The HTC Incredible 4G I used to have, at 4 inches, remains my ideal screen size. Unfortunately, that means I have to compromise on performance, since there are now no reasonably-sized high end phones.

> I can't reach the top of the screen from every hand position.

Well, I think that is not a self-evident bad thing. As a result of Android and Windows Phone design guidelines, by far the most interactions happen on the bottom half of the screen. I think that as long as you can reach the notification bar, there's a pretty good argument to be made that the additional screen estate is more beneficial.

Furthermore, just because you're used to it on your current phone should not necessarily imply that you need it on your next. That is a line of reasoning I'm also seeing a lot, but that just sounds like people being conservative to me. It's a fine preference to have, but such a slightly different way of using a new phone may not always be a bad thing either.

I'm not arguing that bigger screens are better, but I don't think that there are clear objective constraints to screen size. You could even wonder why people think one-handed usability is important at all.

wrong.

the top left corner is very high on usage. on newer android without the menu button, the top right is very high too.

now, android added lots of unsatisfactory work arounds for the very fact that almost everyone can't reach those corners. such as sliding from the left to simulate the top left corner touch. or even the failed fire phone with screen tilt to do the same.

it's all lame work arounds for the problem. the real solution is smaller screen sizes.

> now no reasonably-sized high end phones.

Running Android. From next Tuesday you may be completely right though.

Great point DCKing.

You're missing something there. Phones have also had smaller and smaller bezels. I remember seeing a Motorola Defy a few years ago, that was 4", and it was the same size as my 3.2" HTC Legend.

A much better way to measure these is how tall they are in milimeters. Moto X was 129mm. Now it's 140mm. I've tested some phones in a store, and I've come to the conclusion that 130mm is my ideal size. 135mm I can compromise on if I like the specs too much, and I wouldn't go any bigger than 140mm. Ever.

Even bigger phone, just great.

Edit: there are 7 comments now, and all complained about the bigger size. That means something, doesn't it?

If it does mean something then the Sony Z3 Compact and Samsung Alpha should be the best selling high-end Android phones of this release cycle. We'll see in 6-9 month if that turns out to be the case.

Except that Samsung has historically had a problem of releasing terrible non-flagship devices. Every Samsung generation has 9000 SKUs, and a decent proportion of those are low-end garbage that sabotages their brand. Consumers have figured out that the flagship devices are good, but once you start throwing suffixes around they get suspicious.

I'd wager that shoppers who would like a smaller phone would still by the latest giant Samsung flagship phone over the Alpha because of this effect.

Samsung are positioning the Alpha very much as a flagship device and pricing it in the same region as the S and Note devices.

The plan seems to have the S series for people who want the very cutting edge in specs, The Alpha series for people who want a compact high end phone with sleek design and the Note series for people who want a phablet styled device. Three different devices for three different audiences, but all are flagship devices in their respective segments.

There's more to it than that. My friends with Samsung phones have nothing but issues with the software; frequent reboots and horrible performance. Maybe it's simply because of their popularity that I hear about issues on Samsung phones, but regardless, I'll never buy a Samsung. I don't know much about the Sony. Does Sony do stock Android? Having as close to stock Android as possible is a major, major selling point for me. I would downgrade to a mid-range phone with stock Android over a higher-end phone with a custom skin or whatever.

Sony has a thin cosmetic skin over android, one that actually looks quite sleek. Not much actual functionality is changed.

It means that 7 people here have an issue with the size.

Put me down as the 8th.

My take is that 100% of advanced users have a problem.

I've increased phone size with every upgrade the last 3-4 times. My latest phone is a 5.5", and I might very well go for a 6" next time. The thing is I rarely use my phone for calls, and the 5"-6" range with a full hd display compares sufficiently well to a "public transport friendly" tablet - which would be 7" to at most 8" for me, because it needs to be nice to hold with one hand, and possible to slip into a pocket.

If I do need to make calls when I'm out, I use a headset most of the time, because I'm usually listening to music anyway. If I'm not out I can usually comfortably sit down and the size doesn't matter.

As for being an "advanced user", last office christmas party I logged in to our servers via ssh from my phone to apply a fix to our monitoring system - I like to consider myself an advanced user...

I must have expressed myself poorly.

My point was that people reading NH are advanced users and everybody on the thread (at that point) was unhappy with lack of options. Ie that phones just keep getting bigger without adequate options remaining below the current standard size.

I'd self classify as an advanced user and I prefer a larger phone. I have average sized hands too.

Wow. I know complaining about downvotes is stupid, but still.

How could I possibly deserve a downvote for that? Does that mean that you disagree with my self classification? That you don't think I have average sized hands? That you don't like that someone has a different opinion to you?

That you accidentally pressed the downvote? I'm assuming it is that.

That's a pretty broad generalization.

I do wonder if there's a correlation with age.

Since I hit middle age and got presbyopia, I don't even really like looking at a small screen phone any more. And these crazy 500dpi new screens that are coming out are basically full of wasted pixels for someone like me.

Oh, I don't know - I like browsing the web on my phone and I started feeling that my Nexus is too small. I'm seriously thinking of getting a phoneblet next.

I wonder whether the adoption of larger handsets in Asia is related to lifestyle--people are using these devices as their primary computers, unlike in the U.S. where people use them as supplements for existing laptops, desktops, or larger dedicated tablets.

According to Pew, 1/3 of American's go online using a phone as their primary device. http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheets/mobile-technology-fac...

One would think, if this evolution nonsense was true, that people would have evolved bigger hands by now.

And this is why I'm very happy more and more schools here in good ol' Texas are teaching Intelligent Design.

I thought you were a troll, but your several earlier posts look relatively normal. If you really believe what you just typed, your school (in good old Texas, perhaps?) failed to give you even the most basic understanding of evolution.

I haven't watched very much of these, but I suspect they're pretty good throughout: https://www.khanacademy.org/science/biology/evolution-and-na...

I assume the post was a joke, even then it´s completely out of place here.

It probably means they're iPhone owners, and that they swear they won't get the bigger of the two iPhone 6 models. That is, until they discover that they can, in fact, adapt to a slightly larger phone, as everyone in Asia has already realized.

I thought allegory's comment that 4.5-4.7" is the limit was particularly funny. Was that limit chosen specifically so that the smaller of the iPhone 6 models won't break that limit, but pretty much all high-end android phones do? I don't know, but it's awfully convenient.

Instead of bending everything to fit your wished narrative so you can be dismissive why don't you actually read the comments or ask them?

Many of them, like myself, use "last years" flagships that were in the 4.7" range (e.g. I have an HTC M7) and don't want the screen size bump.

But I guess "lol iSheep" is easier and makes you feel superior.

Screens around 4.5-4.7" seem just small enough for me to be comfortably usable with one hand, also it doesn't look like I'm carrying a notebook in my front pocket.

Speaking about Apple, their phones are good quality and reasonably sized and monitors/panels are 16:10, that's 2 big pluses right there as far as I'm concerned. I don't own any Apple product though.

I'm looking to upgrade my Nexus 4 (4.7") sometime soon. I used a 6" Windows Phone for 2 days (debugging) and it was horrible. I can certainly go a bit higher than the Nexus 4, but I don't think I want to go over 5".

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