These companies do the country and its inhabitants a big disservice. I think the only reasonable option for the FCC and the government would be to increase competition, and remove existing roadblocks.
These companies do the country and its inhabitants a big disservice. I think the only reasonable option for the FCC and the government would be to increase competition, and remove existing roadblocks.
By what measure? Certainly not Akamai's (http://www.akamai.com/dl/akamai/akamai-soti-q114.pdf?WT.mc_i...). The top 10 U.S. states (much of which are in the Northeast and are Comcast territory), would appear comfortably in the top 10 of the global rankings (compare page 14-15 with page 18).
On Ookla's ranking, the U.S. is quite comparable to other big western countries (France, Germany, UK): http://www.netindex.com/download/allcountries. Compare the U.K., at 29 mbps, with comparably-dense northeastern states like New York (35 mbps), Massachusetts (33 mbps), etc.
Indeed, if you look at Ookla's rankings, you can see that density/wealth is a driver of internet speeds: http://www.netindex.com/download/2,1/United-States. Sparsely populated or poor states like Wyoming or West Virginia are down in the 15-20 mbps range. Rich, dense states like New York and New Jersey are at 35+. The U.K. and Germany are ~600 people per square mile, somewhere between New York State and Connecticut in density. The U.S. as a whole is only 90 people per square mile, and states like Wyoming are less than 10 people per square mile.
EDIT: I don't normally get annoyed at down votes, but I point these facts out every time someone repeats the trope "the U.S. lags in broadband speed!" but I never get a real answer, just down votes. The narrative that the U.S. lags behind in broadband speeds seems pretty central to criticisms of U.S. broadband policy, but the surveys I've seen that measure actual speeds (as opposed to advertised speeds), contradicts the assertion that the U.S. lags behind its counterparts. Can someone explain why they disagree with this analysis?
Comparing nations to states is ridiculous. However, if you read the report it's damming with faint praise. "the average connection speeds seen in the United States and Mexico remained more than twice as fast as the next fastest country"
Sure, if you discount everyone that's better than you then you can call yourself #1 at anything.
PS: Note this is of course average bandwidth which radically distorts the picture. One person nominally at 1GBPS and 10 people at 1MBPS is not the same as 11 people at 90+MBPS. For a more realistic vew you would average the square roots of bandwidth, but that makes US look bad.
Population density is something of a misnomer as for example parks significantly lower population density but there basicly irrelevant when building a network.
Remember Netflix maxes out at 3MBit/second and use useable at .75MBit/second so I am getting ~1-2% of my theoretical connection speed.
Hell, the battery backup in their fiber > coax box died after 18 months and they want 50$ to replace it. I don't actually care if it works though a blackout as my router is going down anyway, but the damm thing will not stop beeping.
Washington, DC isn't very dense for the core of a city. There aren't any high rises. Most of the city is single family homes and 3 story walk up apartments.
I live in Arlington, VA which used to be part of DC. I get Verizon Fios. I get 75/75 and cable tv for 80 a month. It's not the dark ages.
Sweden's population density is 21 inhabitants/km2 -- about 54/sq.mile. Finland's population density is lower. Both countries have much better, and cheaper Internet connections on offer than the US.
That made me pause. "Cultural homogeneity?" I asked. And, the debate devolved into how there are too many minorities in the US and because of that, no one in any position of power wanted to allow everyone universal access because minorities (which I assumed to be Blacks, Mexicans, Asians, etc.) would need too many handouts to get the same speed, which no one would want to pay for. But if it were all-white like Sweden or all-Japanese, etc. it would be fine because it's "for the good of the people".
I just kinda tuned out after that argument. That debate did make strike a nerve, though. I wonder how much "cultural heterogeneity" actually _does_ come into play rather than the tired "population density" argument.
"As of 2011, Statistics Sweden reported that around 19.6% or 1.858.000 inhabitants of Sweden had foreign background, defined as born abroad or born in Sweden by two parents born abroad." http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden#Immigr...
That said, I think that the fact that the Swedish regulatory and legislative process isn't captured by commercial interests in the same way it is in the US, is the key thing that has allowed Sweden to move ahead with good broadband.
Sweden being all-white, all-Scandinavian is an outdated image. Many cultures thrive together here, bringing new food and traditions. Almost thirty percent of the current Swedish population is foreign-born or have foreign-born parents. Studies show that the average Swede has become increasingly positive to immigration.
I am certain that if something is holding back the progress of Internet connections, it's not minorities. If this post can change the image of Sweden as "all-white" in just one person on HN, typing it will have felt very worth the time.
If anything it's probably the other way around. It will be a long time before it's cost effective to run fiber to every farm and and shack in the woods in America. But if you let the telcos decide who to serve then you end up with $50/month for gigabit fiber in rich and middle class neighborhoods and $20/month for some tin can on a string in poor neighborhoods, where "poor neighborhoods" include most of the predominantly racial minority neighborhoods, which makes it a political quagmire.
So the telcos end up saddled with build out requirements which means no gigabit fiber for anybody. Which is really quite unfortunate because the justification doesn't require the remedy. Most of the urban poor neighborhoods might not be profitable but they're at least close to break even. The problem is the universal service requirements passed to make sure they get served also require providing service to sparsely populated areas that are a pure money pit.
Whoa there, this story is about "the telcos" opposing municipalities taking the matter in their own hands and ensuring their citizens get fiber.
I would assume there would be no build-out requirement for private entities if there is municipal fiber, but they're welcome to offer service over it if they want, but apparently they don't want that. So if they're saddled, they're hell-bent on keeping on being saddled, presumably so that they can continue wringing their hands and building out things veery slowly, while keeping the local monopoly.
The end goal of all the BS arguments on this topic is too make sure the telcos stay on top. The message gets tuned to the audience no matter how hypocritical the tuning makes it.
"Oh it would be unfair to minorities" "You don't want to subsidize minorities" "anti-free market!" "it's too expensive for the private sector".
When rich people in industries start telling you what's good for the industry, at the end of the day the goal is always to do what's good for them.
Worse is that with the internet you have to be hooked up to the central grid or else it's useless. A farmer in a rural part of Kansas who's tired of not getting enough electricity from the electricity company (not a fast enough connection) and paying power overages (bandwidth caps) has alternatives like solar, or buying a generator or whatever.
But when your internet isn't fast enough you can't just install 10gig copper in your house and solve the problem. Install your 10gig until you've got terabits of bandwidth all over your farm; you still can't use it in what most people would call a meaningful way to interact with the rest of the world.
The idea that some states have good broadband and others have terrible broadband and that this is acceptable is an oft-argued point especially once you take population density into account. And it's not a bad argument. The economics are completely real.
But once you try and make an analogy to power or water or telephone it gets a little easier to see why some folks might be up in arms.
I don't really see why lumping all these things together in the same category makes sense.
Being done in a few seconds is much more fun (and productive) than being done in a few minutes.
The internet is an information network that gives consumers nearly perfect information about price; which translates to a much more ideal market (in economic jargon,) which is much more efficient. It is essentially a utility, if people without it are at a significant economic disadvantage like that.
Spotty connectivity, packet loss, frequent disconnects - all things that come with shoddy internet infrastructure. High speed generally means higher quality.
And let's not forget that even just for work the internet is not only used to send plaintext emails. We video chat, we work with crappy bandwidth-hungry web apps, and those are just the smaller of the hungrier things we can do. At my work I have to download tens of gigabytes of foreign data every few days.
And as someone who works at home and manages a work-entertainment schedule to keep sane, it's pretty pathetic to see people try to squeeze out an "Admit it! You just want a faster netflix!" from others. So what if they do? If you compare internet access to access to drinking water, then high speed internet access is drinking water that doesn't taste like piss. Just because you can live off it doesn't mean it's pleasant.
The point is, there is not a legitimate "population density" excuse for NYC or LA or Dallas or Seattle or SF or any other major metropolitan area to have much slower internet speeds than cities like Seoul or Tokyo, or nations like Israel or Singapore.
The population of the 20 largest cities (New York down to Memphis) is 33 million, or about 10% of the U.S. population. 9% of Sweden's population lives in Stockholm, and the next 10% lives in the three largest cities after that.
Half the population might live in the 20 largest metro areas, but American metro areas are structured very differently than European cities. Stockholm's 900,000 people anchors a metro area of about 2.2 million people. That 40-50% ratio is typical of European cities, but atypical here in the U.S. Out of the largest 20 metro areas in the U.S., only San Diego has more than 40% of the overall metro population in the core city.
The population distribution in the U.S. is very different than in Europe, even if you restrict your attention to large metro areas. In the U.S., much more of the population lives in sprawling suburbs.
1) What's internet services like in the U.S. at large levels of granularity?
2) What's internet service like in the U.S. in specific cities?
Re: 1, I think the available data shows that, at a large granularity, we can say that, e.g. the average speeds in big European countries like the U.K. and Germany, factoring in their rural and urban areas together, are comparable to U.S. cities that have similar density, like New York or Connecticut. I think that shows that the overall structure of our telecom market is not inferior to that in the U.K. or Germany or France.
Re: 2, the question is why certain European cities have much faster internet than comparably dense U.S. cities. And I think the answer to that is the same as the answer to: why do certain European cities have much better public transit than comparably dense U.S. cities?
The status of Stockholm within the political structure of Sweden, or the status of Warsaw within the political structure of Poland is very different than the status of New York or Chicago within the political structure of the U.S. Large U.S. cities don't have the political pull to get national-level infrastructure investment.
I've never been to Sweden, but I'm familiar with Bangladesh, where Dhaka (10% of the national population), is the center of political life. I imagine Sweden similarly views the infrastructure of Stockholm as a point of national competitiveness. That's not at all true of American cities. The bulk of the polity of the U.S. views our large cities with skepticism and derision. Instead of viewing investment into urban infrastructure as a point of competitiveness, the heavily-suburban American polity views it as a boondoggle to get poor urban votes.
Public transit is typically state sector, telecom is often private sector. Are you saying that the reason for superior broadband internationally is primarily because of government subsidies or nationalized telecom infrastructure?
To the extent the federal government has demonstrated an interest in broadband here in the U.S., it has mostly been on issues like the rural-urban broadband gap (i.e. the "digital divide.") Which makes total sense when you consider the demographics: in the U.S., the locus of political power is outside the cities. It's the same reason Obama gets demonized by half the country for talking about rail and public transit.
With the federal government out of the picture, it's left to the state and local governments, which: 1) don't have much money; 2) are politically dysfunctional. Imagine proposing municipal fiber in San Francisco. Comcast wouldn't have to send any lobbyists over to shoot it down. You'd have NIMBY's complaining about the digging and the size of the network cabinets, and they'd paint the whole thing as a boondoggle sop to the "techie types that are ruining the city."
Your argument is invalid.
I still think the best public data is the FCC international broadband survey and report which I have previously referenced. The Ookla "promise" figures can be used to validate the advertised speeds in that dataset versus actual speeds.
The issue is not merely of availability of very high speed (>25mbps) connections but its price, an area in which the FCC study demonstrates the US is not competitive. [This information cannot be obtained from the data sets you mentioned].
Moreover, most people, certainly most people here, don't care about nation-wide or even state-wide averages, and they distort the figures, in favor of the US no less (rural Wyoming probably has better access than rural Romania, nobody cares about either). What are the figures for the main urban centers? As a datapoint, based on the FCC data I don't think there is a major US city which is competitive with Warsaw, Poland except possibly for Austin due to Google Fiber.
What would help settle this issue is if someone like Netflix , Google or Dropbox incorporated a speed test (they don't seem to test beyond their stream rates currently) and made the granular data public.
Finally, it is anecdotal but I have found those who have lived in Scandinavia (or Eastern Europe) and the US say pretty consistently that the broadband is much worse in the latter.
But stifling the economy is not only a matter of speed. It's also a matter of how much you pay for that speed. Let me explain. I am a Comcast customer. When I look at a Netflix movie, Comcast gets money from three sources for that movie: my monthly subscription, the 200% overage fee that I pay, because - basically - I watch Neflix instead of one of the crappy channels that come with my subscription, and from Neflix.
The fact that Comcast gets paid three times makes internet pretty expensive for me. Because Netflix will have no choice but increasing their subscription costs.
So? That's like saying the US is 31st on average car speed. Very few people need a car that goes more than 70mph, just like very few people need an internet connection that goes faster than "can stream HD video".
Example, every time I log into VPN I barf a little knowing that for various reason I need to use US servers, but that practically every random smaller nation is blowing us away...