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Comment by MichaelGG | Hacker News Reader

The article loses some credibility by saying Zohydro is a new opioid. It's just hydrocodone, without the harmful acetaminophen additive. Nothing special.

Is pot an effective painkiller if you need to really think while getting relief? Opiates don't have psychedelic effects or even the general mental impairment of pot.

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I have been prescribed opiates like hydrocodone before, and I can guarantee that they significantly affect your thinking. I'm not sure how anyone could argue otherwise. They are worse than being drunk. Is that really something that people debate? Opiates don't impair your thinking? Am I responding to a robot astroturfer?

Just one anecdote, but I felt surprisingly clear-headed when I took oxycodone. Aside from feeling more relaxed and optimistic than normal, I didn't feel any of the fuzziness I feel when drunk. Maybe an external observer would have disagreed; I wasn't really interacting with people or attempting any mentally-taxing exercises.

There are lots of other downside to opioids, of course, such as dizziness during physical activity and addiction.

All I've ever felt on opiates is pleasantly tired.

Of course, marijuana doesn't really impair me much either. Or alcohol for that matter. My ability to handle intoxication is sometimes distressing.

Well I'm suprised to see these responses. Even studies show opiate treated patients have better cognitive performance (due to pain reduction, presumably). The head of Germany's air force was a morphine addict. Plenty of addicts are outed and go on to admit their "problem", yet they were functioning fine.

Apart from people getting nauseous or passing out from opiates, I've never heard people complaining about not being able to think. (Sample size ~30). In fact, I've heard the opposite, that opiate treatment improves their ability to think. Whereas with pot, it seems most people are seeking a mental state that doesn't encourage detailed concentration.

Try looking at people's pupils as you go about your day. Doctors, lawyers, executives... I've seen plenty of people with pinned pupils but no obvious signs of cognitive impairment.

You definitely don't seem like a robot, but your initial comment was similarly surprising to me. From personal experience, I would say that it's entirely possible to act normally under the influence of opiates while being completely affected by them. I think it's more a flaw in the way we judge people. At high doses of opiates, a person will be incapacitated, but at low doses, I still had my motor skills but felt like an entirely different person, like half my brain was blocked. I compensated, of course, but I was painfully aware that I was compensating, and I was often acting out of memory of how I would have responded rather than naturally reacting to things. For me, it was more like destruction of feelings and higher thinking while maintaining basic memories and reactions to things. I could be completely logical while emotionless and lacking any larger perspective or analysis. Maybe that kind of attitude is just considered normal now.

I think weed makes people think more abstractly but opiates destroy feeling and complex thoughts.

Opiates surely affect judgment by adding a positive spin. Similar to how one's judgment is affected when things are going well (say, a fantastic start to a relationship). But I was referring to analytical thinking, not more subjective feeling.

I can and have written a search engine/database while on opiates. I doubt I could implement cat on pot.

I believe you, but I think we are talking about two different kinds of impairment. I'm sure there are also effects of tolerance to be able to program on opiates, and different people will react differently. The positive spin is something I never experienced. I got the opposite negative perspective on everything.

So will agree that it is probably easier for most people to think analytically on low doses of opiates rather than cannabinoids, but I think there are other aspects of mental blocks that manifest strongly on opiates, at least for myself.

I'm an ex heroin addict who was considered a functional addict. I kept it hidden for 6 years. It's not like alcohol at all, in terms of impairment, in my experience. Hell, I'm working an amazing job doing innovative things while on suboxone, as I have been for the past two years.

First off let me state this, I believe Marijuana should be legal. But I also believe that all drugs should be legalized and distributed by a doctor and not available at a pharmacy for anyone under 21. Having said that opiate users/addicts are surprisingly functional unlike those under the influence of Marijuana imo. I got shoulder surgery two days before my final exams in my senior year of college and then proceeded to get A's on every exam without any problems concentration or other side effects. I never could have done that on Marijuana. But the real problem with the recent efforts to legalize Marijuana is that it is promoting the fallacy that it is a panacea and has no side effects and can just magically cure all diseases when in reality the recent research is showing quite the opposite.

http://jn.sfn.org/press/April-16-2014-Issue/zns01614005529.p...

http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/earl...

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v38/n12/full/npp2013164a.h...

I can argue otherwise. I didn't have that effect, and still don't despite being on suboxone. Depends on the person.

> Opiates don't have psychedelic effects or even the general mental impairment of pot.

Spoken like someone who's never been prescribed opiates. I had to take oxycodene for a while, and before that tramadol (a milder opiate) and "attend" university at the same time. I might as well have been in Antarctica for all the mental capability I had while either.They're also massively addictive, with pretty harsh physical withdrawal symptoms occurring after short dosages, requiring a slow weaning process to stop taking them.

I guess it all depends in your genetic makeup. I just feel generally happier and find that my coding and math abilities are slightly enhanced.

Lots of people will feel like they perform all sorts of things better while intoxicated under various substances when in reality they are performing suboptimal. You need an outside party to verify these types of claims.

I have pain currently requiring over 100mg/day morphine equivalent and have been on opiate treatment for nearly a decade. Apart from when changing doses or the occasional side effect, I have no problem thinking, coding, etc. I do much better in general on medication than not. I don't seem to be dumb (going off relative cognitive ability to other people, feedback, etc.)

I'm surprised at these responses, which contradict so much of the evidence I'm aware of. But I suppose there is survivorship bias as people like you are unlikely to continue on to long-term treatment. But thank you for the counter evidence.

I only really noticed the difference when I stopped taking Oxycodene. My evidence is purely anecdotal, of course. I was on it for about 2 months, with about 3 months either side w/ Tramadol, so not quite long term, but long enough.

I wouldn't classify it as a dumb feeling - more of a passive state, but when I stopped with the heavy opiates I noticed an increase in productivity - I spent much less time working and achieved a much higher output. Of course, that's not an option for some people.

I've taken Demerol after a rock climbing incident resulting in a fairly serious (but thankfully transient) soft-tissue lower back injury. I can assure you that I was far more mentally impaired on Demerol than I ever have been on pot (which I have used recreationally a few times over the years, but am not a regular user of).

When on pot my mind has felt a little "slow", on Demerol my mind was essentially out to lunch for a couple of days.

Funnily, pot completely destroys me. Different genetics I suppose.

Yeah I'm sure there is a ton of "YMMV" in there depending upon the exact strain of pot, the exact type of opiate (and the dosage), and just differences in how people react to each.

Opiates themselves aren't an effective pain killer if you need to think while getting relief. Initial euphoria, followed by dizziness, headache and constipation. And I've heard they're addictive.

>Is pot an effective painkiller if you need to really think while getting relief?

Speaking as a chronic pain sufferer of over a decade, I would hazard that you are high on anti-cannabis propaganda.

I was given opiates after having my wisdom teeth pulled. After two days I decided I'd rather have a clear head and deal with the (by then subsiding) pain than continue wading through fog. The impairment was that unsettling.

"Is pot an effective painkiller if you need to really think while getting relief?"

A low-THC strong indica strain leaves you rather clear-headed (I do not personally find them to be effective for pain relief, but others claim good results).

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