Ask HN: How many HNers strongly prefer silence at home? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How many HNers strongly prefer silence at home?

67 pointspersonlurking61 comments

The article from a few days ago ("This is your brain on silence") got me wondering how many of us here search out silence at home? And if so, why?

As I get older, I'm finding my preference for silence increases. Nature sounds are included in my definition of silence, thus I'm more talking about an aversion to man-made noise. I want my home to be free of noise and commotion, as those two things, in my mind, are related to the outside world and being in public. Basically, I want that option and contrast to always exist, between public and private…and I think an attempt at silence should be the norm, even in public (which makes me think I might enjoy living in Japan).

In terms of why I feel the way I do, well, I'm not quite sure (but it may have to do with liking nature, being an introvert, a minimalist, a writer, and with growing up in a house where silence was a pipe dream).

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I suspect it may have something to do with the sensory processing dial on introverts being a little jacked up. You may find this paper interesting: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3409988/

This bit rings true for me at least:

"We present evidences that support the existance of key neural connectivity between the [highly sensitive trait], higher sensory processing sensitivity, introversion, ectomorphism and creativity... [these] people may process, at the same time, larger amounts of sensory information than usual, making this trait an excellent model to pick up subtle environmental details and cues. However, they feel easily worn out, overwhelmed and exhausted because they sense every single detail while interacting with their environment.[3,4] To recover from such attainable sensory overload, these individuals require more quiet time daily to be alone, as well as additional longer sleep times than those without the HS trait."

Interesting, I'll have to read that study. I've heard of this in introverts, and agree with it, that's one reason we don't like nightclubs…sensory overload.

I identify with a lot of what is being said here.

I have a friend that leaves the TV on all the time and it drives me crazy.

I can't find anything in big stores, I don't see how people do it.

I sleep a lot. 10 or 12 hours regularly.

I find myself recently being drawn toward meditation.

Strangely I have always thought that I was not intuitive. I make less eye contact than most people but I am noticing that I notice stuff about people that most people don't. I make so little eye contact, I have thought I have face blindness.

This story reminds of the one about the Maine hermit a few days ago. He claims to avoid looking a people's face because there is "so much information there." He was also very creative.

the Maine hermit was also diagnosed with Asperger's during his confinement, and wasn't at all surprised at the diagnosis.

With the hermit it was a really difficult task,while reading the article, to determine how much of his persona was created by the introversion of forest dwelling, and how much of it was perhaps created by his mental traits (which, actually, may have been the initiating cause for his walking away from society in the first place).

Jesus, that's my mirror image.

+ My girlfriend makes me watch movies that she never watches. When the movie starts I get sucked in (a movie which I didn't wanna see in first place) and then she starts talking about something else. Trying to keep up both with the movie and her conversations drives me crazy. I talked about this with another two guys, which I like and respect because of their knowledge depth, both came up with same answer: Women (usually) do many things at the same time without paying attention to any of those things. They are able to watch a movie, talk to the phone, listen to the radio... All together.

I feel seriously deprived when I realise I can't do any of those things combined (without getting really, really angry).

I had the same experience once. I decided that it's more important to pay attention to the girl, just ignore the movie and watch it later. When Tivo came out it was like a life saver cuz I could pause live tv and focus on whatever interrupted me.

It rings true for me as well, but there's still a floor on it. I like a quieter environment than most extroverts, but there is no such thing as an absolutely silent environment (not unless you spend a lot of money to make one of those soundless rooms).

There's also the matter of acute vs chronic noise. Any steady, constant noise, like a fan or music, I can tune out. Aggressive, sudden noises (like somebody shouting on the street) trigger something primal in me. It attracts my attention and if it's loud enough will even trigger my fight or flight reflex.

It makes me wonder if the reason the sensory processing dial on introverts is a little jacked up is because that trait results in a more sensitive fight or flight reflex.

A professor told me he went once in a "no sound at all" room, and he ended up hearing his blood flowing through his body.

which makes me think I might enjoy living in Japan

Tokyo will disabuse you of this notion fairly rapidly. If you want pin-drop silence you have to either get out to nature or pay for private space. The substitute for silence that much of Japan uses is a social bubble. There's a polite fiction that things outside one's own bubble don't exist, and polite society is extraordinarily reluctant to impose itself upon others' bubbles. It's basically both required for sanity in daily life and an answer to the question of how many people in Tokyo are confronted with overpowering loneliness when it is one of the most densely populated places on earth.

and 45 minutes outside any US major/minor city you can buy a cheap/er house on a plot of land and have the best of all words.

i get tired of the over-romanticization of taking a given personal quality and taking it beyond the extreme.

you could just say you want a house a little ways out that's nice and quiet, but that has to become "living in Japan".

Japan.

"There's a polite fiction that things outside one's own bubble don't exist"

I've seen this (via documentaries) where Japanese rail service is involved, and how even speaking on one's cell phone is considered rude. Even more so, when something negative happens to someone near you, how pretending to not see it is the norm. Another thing I heard is that if a guy gives a girl a cat-call, if she responds negatively, she's leading him on in a sense (causing further interaction). There are other examples, such as stopping a thief running away from the scene of a crime, etc.

Obviously Tokyo would be pretty low on anyone's list if they're seeking peace and quiet.

However, I think Japan, and some european countries with good high speed rail, can indeed offer viable "living close to nature" scenarios - you can be quite far away from the big cities but still be within an hour by train. I have actually been semi-seriously considering buying a place in Karuizawa - a beautiful small town in Nagano prefecture, yet you can be at tokyo station in 45 minutes. There's also some lovely, quiet small towns along the akita shinkansen line.

Best of both worlds! And internet is ubiquitous, fast and cheap.

You can find this right in the bay area.

West Marin in general, and the pt Reyes nat. seashore in particular.

I am currently 13 miles as the crow flies from the transamerica pyramid, and I am looking at 360 view, to the horizon, with no trace of humankind. It's silent.

If I may: How does your social life work?

Is the train _that_ good to reach civilization and other people? How do you reach the train if you don't see any trace of humankind (maybe my English-as-a-second-language skills fail me, but I read that as 'the station is far away')?

That sounds like you're absolutely dependent on your car, at least until you reach a station? Is anything leaving from that station after - say - 21/22 in the evening?

I'm seriously curious. This way of life is so completely different from what I'd choose. I'd like to understand how that "works"..

I can answer some of the logistics questions.

In Marin, for public transport, there's bus and ferry to San Francisco. For Bart (regional metro service), one would have to go over the Richmond bridge or the Golden Gate bridge (and far enough into SF that you'd be downtown already). Getting to Bart stations via either bridge is really quick as long as you have a car. Bus and ferry are quick enough. Also, you can bicycle to the ferry or even across the Golden Gate from Marin.

How expensive is rent out that way? I remember looking into it a few years back and found it was more expensive than living in the city, considering I would have had to buy a car.

I love silence. Its likely one of the best things ever. I find myself not only enjoying it but needing it to cope with stress. A long week of work and constantly dealing with people, bullshit, people interrupting my thought process.

I find when I get home, I just want to be left alone, left in quiet. The hard part is when I don't (two roommates + work being done on the house), like the last few weeks. I get extremely stressed, to the point I get muscle cramps, and lose a lot of sleep.

I've even tried exercising daily after work to help cope with stress, and it doesn't help at all.

Wow, I haven't reached that point to where it affected me physically but, yes, I would suggest exercise as well, preferably running or while being in nature.

I need the same thing -- quite unfortunate for my significant other.

I need a day of silence a week. I can deal with all the stresses of work / life, provided I get a day to just sleep late, relax, clean, and not listen to anyone else but my own inner thoughts.

Silence is a luxury.

I live in the shadow of NYC and in any 10 min block of time will hear a: helicopter/ airplane/ truck/ motorcycle. Garbage is picked up at 3am. There are vague oceanic noises which I imagine are nearby building HVAC systems. Bars and a W hotel add to the general ambient noise.

Spent 2 weeks camping in Iceland this summer and had moments of real silence. Not a brief lull before the next noise but quiet with no expectation of further noise.

And regardless of it being a luxury (which I agree with), do you prefer NYC or Iceland? Or both, but not strictly one or the other?

I have never lived more than 30 miles from NYC (outside of 3 years in Seoul - which is at least as active as NYC). It is hard to imagine living elsewhere.

I go crazy with floor boards creaking above me but I work best in a co-working space. I prefer silence and coming home from work just increases my anxiety. It's not only the ambient noise I need but also a healthy transition from "productivity noise" to "useless noise". I enjoy reading these articles and stories that justify my condition but it frustrates me that I can't do enough to optimize my lifestyle sustainably for it.

In case anyone's interested, here's some research showing the benefits of a small amount of ambient noise (7dB) helping creative cognition: http://www.jstor.org/stable/full/10.1086/665048

I live in a large Swedish city, and as a side-effect of my apartment being well-isolated from the cold during winter, it is also very silent. I do enjoy having access to near complete silence, to the point that I have avoided mechanical clocks and computer hardware that makes any significant noise. That said, I often play music or open the doors to my balconies as I find that my hearing wants to be stimulated while I work.

As it was brought up in another post, I am also an introvert and find myself being overloaded with impressions occasionally. Being able to retreat to a silent apartment is of great help with this.

I work inside a newsroom (10 journalist brawling) and live close to a 4lane street + embassy that has a mega airconditioner.

That much noise isn't good for you ? At least at work I am most of the time with headphones.

A friend visited Amsterdam, and when I asked about an impression, he said "The air was clean. You could feel it".

Another friend visited Germany and said "It was quiet. Especially on weekend."

I'm looking forward to a day where I leave the country entirely.

And I'm 22.

I think after having lived in several neighborhoods where noise was 21/7 (almost 24/7, that is, and where no one has consideration for their neighbor), it may be that I simply have grown to appreciate distance from that kind of living.

There's a lot of noise that I can live with, since I'm a pretty flexible person, but I prefer the outside world to be a choice and having that line between one thing and another (headphones are helpful). Equally, I like being able to go out to social places but not specifically having to be social (like cafes).

Ignoring neighbors mowing their lawn/working on their houses and kids playing outside:

I'm working from home and have two kids below the age of 2. What is this silence thing you're talking about and should I try and look for it?

More seriously: While I do live somewhere 'silent' right now, that's more or less a workaround, an arrangement with some facts of life. I prefer living in a lively city (last place was one of Germany's biggest cities w/ around a million people), in a central place.

I felt most comfortable in that very city, living as a single right next to two well-known concert locations and with lots of nightlife around. Second place: Living in Tel Aviv, which seems to compare itself with NYC as another city that never sleeps.

No noise - impossible. I'd probably turn on a radio or start humming stuff (and believe me, that's not a good idea..) if I'd ever be stuck in _real_ silence.

Nah, I think it's really just a fetish for those looking for inspiration. Kind of like that whole myth about how drugs boost creativity.

Yes, I failed to mention I'm childless, and neighborly things like having lawns to cut can't happen here where apt buildings are one after the other. That said, some of my neighbors have kids, others love to talk in the stairway, and my upstairs neighbor drops small items on his floor frequently and at very odd hours. I'm pretty hard to annoy so it doesn't bother me too much (if it were constant, that's another thing).

The part about the central-living in the German city, I would guess that if you like relative silence, you get the same pleasure out of being near lively places (as long as you can return to a calm enough place after).

Yeah, sure. Your last statement is fine, but .. it's a matter of preference. The return could be 'So, just leave the noisy/lively city if you seek silence', no?

You pick your home based on your preferences. I wouldn't normally live in this mostly silent place, because leaving home and traveling to the more lively (or .. noisy) places eats motivation and energy, which means that more often than not I don't do it anymore.

I'd prefer having all of that right outside of my door, leaving for quiet places instead - when necessary/appropriate.

I'm very appreciative of the level of silence I can enjoy on a regular basis. I recently moved into a semi-private office at work (one other guy working with me, but he's pretty quiet), and when I get home my wife goes to school - I have a few hours of noise while I hang out with my toddler, then he goes to bed and it's back to quiet until she gets home (and subsequently goes to bed).

I'm also somewhat introverted and find excessive noise (for a fairly low value of excessive) pretty overwhelming/exhausting. My brain is constantly working on some challenge I'm facing, usually from multiple angles; trying to marshal all those ideas into a single, coherent train of thought is a mental exercise. Trying to do that with some inane television show in the background is a non-starter.

I definitely enjoy some quiet time now and again - however I'm working from home at the moment and do enjoy the sounds of kids playing outside, they're laughing and shouting at each other. I can hear the odd airplane and helicopter as well. The volume is determined greatly by whether the windows are open or not but I tend to leave them open as the fresh air seems to make the apartment more sanitary.

At night sometimes there are parties and loud music is played - it doesn't bother me as I don't find it that difficult to sleep. Not really a huge amount of traffic in the apartment complex I live in as it's quite far down the docklands in Dublin, Ireland. I reckon when I'm older (50+) I might be less attracted to the hustle and bustle of city living.

I also work from home and I think that's why I'm not 100% crazy about all silence, all the time. As mentioned in one of my comments here, I get a lot of my noise needs while doing things in public that require minimal social interaction. And when I want a "normal" experience, I go out with someone from my small group of friends.

I agree with the age thing. You know how a young person can be an "old soul"? I'm probably not that but I do think I may have been born an old person. Being young-ish, I'm attracted to city-life exactly because it gives me that choice, between being at home in relative quiet and seeing lots of people out and about.

The sound of a running refrigerator is one of those sounds found in most homes and can be a source of constant distraction, whether this distraction takes place below conscious recognition or not.

I feel that silence is especially beneficial for (and sought out by) people who have a lot of divergent ideas or thoughts which they 'need to' converge and solidify into a more emergent and connected whole. Artistic people would be one simple example but also anyone who has done a great deal of autodidactic study and then wants to turn that into a more refined versions of internalized information...

EDIT: There are of course ways to dampen the sounds in a home or other building, namely, sound-absorbing foam which can be placed on walls or insulation inside of the walls.

I am guilty of trying to teach myself many things, with varying degrees of success. I'd also say that I have divergent ideas (and theories) and that you're right on about that. In fact, if I had to point to a single best reason for preferring silence, it's this.

If it's not conscious, it isn't a distraction. Also, not all artists work in quiet rooms.

For example, Basquiat had the news on, music, movies, etc while painting and Stephen gave up on looking for a quiet room and so wrote Carrie with a desk in the living room and two small children to help take care of.

There is no connection between thought and silence except in folklore, really.

As for your point about noises which do not generate a conscious thought...are you saying that an unconscious thought cannot be a 'distraction' in the sense that it is wasting precious resources in the mind?

I've been in a few houses where all the utilities including water were turned off. No humming, no creaking, nothing. Houses are not normally that silent, and that kind of silence disturbs me.

In times when the power has gone out and all the running appliances turned off...deep freeze, refrigerator, computers, TV...it is a degree of silence that surprised me. I don't normally realize how much noise there is.

I thought my workplace and home were fairly silent, at least when I wanted them to be. (At home, I usually had something going on in the background, such as music, but if I found it bothersome, I could always turn it off)

This summer, I took a trip out to the Rockies and went on a few hiking trips. Some of the trails were pretty much empty of human traffic during the later hours. The vastness of nature, coupled with the trees and lack of wind that day made for a deafening silence similar to an anechoic chamber. It was truly stunning.

A major form of "silence infrastructure" is some form of nature, close at hand to where you're living and working. This does not have to be wild, raw nature, just something you can walk through and not have your attention frazzled constantly by signals and sounds you might react to.

Companies and learning institutions having tree-lined office parks or choosing to be located near public parks recognize this. And on a personal level, we all should too.

I don't really care if it's silent or not, but I find it important that it's controlled by me as much as possible. Even to the point of running a rain noise simulator under some music album.

As far as actual volume is concerned, I play music all day long, unless I'm extremely hung over and need to rest. In hands of a skilled operator, music is basically a mood control board. I can't imagine why would someone want to live without that power.

White noise + earplugs

Question: when it actually is very quiet (like 3am), does anyone else hear a low-pitched hum? It's so low and quiet, it's more like a pressure than a sound. And if there's any sound at all (e.g. even if I'm moving around), I can't hear it.

I'd thought it was traffic or road construction etc, but I also heard it in a forest, about 10km from the nearest main road... But it doesn't seem to be internal, as it's not synchronized with my pulse or breath.

EDIT: I'm in Melbourne, Australia. I first noticed it when living by the bay near the international shipping dock, and it seemed to be coming from there. But I've just moved about 20km further along the bay, and it's just as loud. And also heard it about 100km inland (in the bush). Though this was near major high-tension powerlines (I think, supplying melbourne with coal-electricity from Morwell). Maybe that was it.

Where do you live? obviously not in the US since you used the word kilometers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hum

Melbourne, Australia (I added more details above). Thanks, that sounds like it exactly! So, I'm not going crazy (or, at least, not alone in it).

I'd guess it's related to industrialization in some way, as low frequency sounds can carry long distances, and are difficult to directionalize.

Thanks a lot for the link.

I prefer almost-silence, very low levels of undemanding noise and very little human noise. My favorite environments (which I don't currently have) include faint and distant traffic if any, an open window with a light leave-rustling breeze and polite birds.

I live in a school ,so I get sharp voices of pupils yelling in the schoolyard(300+ kids) almost all day(I live in the second floor). I got used to it.

But friends staying at my place often ask me how I can bear that noise. I guess i developped some kind of noise filter.

Not exactly the same but this sort of filtering happens to me here in Lisbon. I have developed a Portuguese comprehension 'switch' that I can activate with relative ease. Perhaps learning the language later in life helps me with switching it on and off. On the flip side, it has heightened my listening ability in English, to where I pay extra attention when I hear English (my native language).

I need everyone else to be silent. I can make all the noise I want, play music loud etc, and I can still focus fine on whatever I am working on.

The second I hear other noises outside, in another room, etc I start to lose focus and get annoyed.

At one job, I caused some annoyance by implicitly following a rule: if you don't turn off the radio when you leave the room, we weren't listening to it; ergo, I may turn it off. My wife will turn a radio on, and leave the room for varying periods. I do not, usually, turn the radio off in those cases.

I find that I don't count ambient but indistinguishable sounds as noise: a kid yelling on the next block may be audible, but doesn't really register. Traffic two blocks away, without sirens, doesn't particularly.

I like silence somewhat, but absolute silence actually is a distraction for me—it feels odd.

Absolute silence, as in not even white noise? I used to live in Brazil where families often leave the TV on in the other room just in order to have noise. My version of that is to have the fan on in the summer, maybe some instrumental music playing lowly anytime, or leaving the back door open to where I can hear the birds.

I would love it if some enterprising person ranked restaurants by a quietness rating.

I prefer 4′33″ by John Cage as background music.

I sometimes feel like that's the only piano piece I've truly mastered...

Yep.

Here in Switzerland it's usually pretty quiet, but Sunday is exceptional. No work is allowed - no cutting your grass, no washing your car, etc. The museums are open, and it's also a hiking day (Saturday too).

That, I didn't know. I like that there's a hiking day.

In Brazil, on holidays (and sometimes Sundays), cities tend to turn into ghost towns so it's a similar end result.

Tongue-in-cheek, but Bern(e) (not-really-but-close-to-the-concept the capital of CH) is a ghost town most nights.

More or less lived there for (accumulated, on-site for projects, stayed all week and a good number of weekends) 1.5-2 years. Compared to other cities in CH or places in DE the thing goes dark early and completely.

(No bashing intended. It's an really beautiful city if you're looking at the architecture, I love what nature has to offer all around, love the Aare/river in the center of the thing and they have decent local beer.. It's just absolutely dead at night in my opinion. Silence, to get back on topic, is easy to find)

What about farmers with their noisy gigantic tractors? Are they allowed to use them on Sunday? Or do they usually use them also on Sunday?

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