Kongregate founder tackles 'dark money' in political campaigns
sfgate.com
sfgate.com
Now, tell me please, how that would be a good thing?
US has a long standing tradition of anonymous political speech, starting with the Federalist Papers. The consequences of getting rid of this tradition may be much worse than the rosy picture the proponents paint.
If one party spends $100M on their message, and the other just says it loudly at city council meetings, to his/her friends, passes out $100 worth of fliers, writes letters to the editors of every major newspaper, and puts up a webpage they designed themselves - there's no competition on message here. It's a slaughter on resources.
>Banning anonymous speech means if you lose on message, and you have power, you can attack your opponent on other aspects
Money is far more akin to power than speech. Money is generally a proxy for power.
>>> If one party spends $100M on their message, and the other just says it loudly at city council meetings
In fact, nothing like this happens. Usually, for any idea worth talking about, there is a lot of money on both sides, because a lot of people in the US have money and would gladly spend it to support the cause they consider right. Much less would be willing to do so if they would face harassment, retaliation and possibly ruin of their life's work for it. I do not think this should be a consequence of you supporting your favorite cause. Do you? If your worst and most corrupt opponents would control the state enforcement machine, would you prefer to be able to work anonymously to dislodge them or not be able to do this without risking your whole life be ruined immediately?
>>> Money is generally a proxy for power.
This is true. But you can not (usually) exercise the power directly against the message - the First Amendment guards against that quite successfully. With privacy destroyed, you can, however, successfully use the power against the messenger or people that allow them to deliver this message - thus effectively killing the message without running afoul of the letter of the First Amendment, but entirely destroying its purpose.
To say the least, this is disputed by intelligent and well-respected people on both sides, and neither sides' arguments can be dismissed with a wave.
>Usually, for any idea worth talking about, there is a lot of money on both side
This is the law of averages, and is not a law. If your philosophy depends on it being true, then it will fail.
>>> This is the law of averages, and is not a law.
Look at the data for any hot issue, from presidential election to gay marriage to gun control.
>>> If your philosophy depends on it being true, then it will fail.
It's not philosophy, it's what actually happens. If the reverse would happen, we would have to consider why there's no people having money that support certain point, and if this is a problem. But for any real point under discussion right now, it is not the case, so if you want to say it would be the case, you need to account for the fact it didn't happen and explain why it would be different in your case.
Not clearly enough for me to understand.
My most realistic option for making my voice heard would be to contribute money to a person, campaign, corporation, whatever, that accepts money from other like-minded people and uses that money to advance our shared position.
However, I would be quite hesitant to do that if I couldn't do it anonymously. Aside from the chilling effects of the Brandon Eich debacle, there is also the practical consideration that volunteering contact information in this day and age is an invitation to incessant harassment from entities that operate under loopholes in do-no-call legislation.
I believe my voice is diminished by any political funding legislation that disallows anonymous donation.
>> If one party spends $100M on their message, and the
>> other just says it loudly at city council meetings
>
> In fact, nothing like this happens.
You should lobby. Or at least watch your local equivalent to C-SPAN. See how the game is played before you comment.
>>> That is precisely what happens.
Supported by what data? Here's mine: http://www.cnbc.com/id/49550998/ Care to show yours?
>>> You should lobby
No thanks, I prefer to make my living in different ways.
>>> Or at least watch your local equivalent to C-SPAN
Which would show me the financial patterns how exactly?
>>> See how the game is played before you comment
Thank you for your concern about my education, however offbase it is. I am well aware how the game is played. That's exactly why I see the variety of vulnerabilities ripe for exploitation and dangers that destroying privacy in political speech would produce.
Sorry, but I can't even figure out what point you're arguing.
Have a nice day.
It can be difficult if not impossible to figure out the sources of funding in a lot of these cases. Particularly in elections, that run on money, and presumably whose candidates are paying a lot of attention to the needs of their doners (perhaps more then their voters), the source of this money matters. I think this is a great idea aimed at increasing the transparancy in the shady world of campaigning.
"Drown out" is just another way of saying "speech". Unless drowning down is done by non-speech ways - like getting the speaker beaten up or jailed or sued into bankruptcy.
>>> large companies using litigation against smaller entities that can't afford to fight regardless of their message
And removal of privacy would fix that how exactly?
>>> groups whose sole purpose is to publish findings to the funding entities' benefit.
If those entities do that, they are PR companies. It is a completely legal business, nothing wrong with that.
>>> It can be difficult if not impossible to figure out the sources of funding in a lot of these cases.
Which would lead to more and more restrictive policies, and more and more instances of abuse, where incumbents, unable to compete on message, would instigate "campaign finance" investigation against challengers and destroy their campaign, only for the investigation to peter out immediately after electoral threat is gone. More power you put into this system, the more abuse it would generate.
>>> increasing the transparancy in the shady world of campaigning.
There's nothing shady in anonymous speech. You do not have the right to violate other's privacy, and somebody's refusal to disclose their private matters does not make them "shady". "Honest man has nothing to hide" is a lie.
We are trying to stop people from spending millions of dollars on paid ads advocating the defeat of a candidate they don't like (over 90% of independent expenditures go to negative ads).
That's a little different than the federalist papers, I think.
If someone has a powerful message, they can make a YouTube video and it will spread. If someone has a message that requires millions of dollars to be powerful, then it's not unreasonable to know who is spending those millions.
> it is very easy to cut down an upstart candidate by an entrenched incumbent by just attacking their supporters and intimidating them before the challenger even becomes a threat
Can you cite any examples of this happening? Typically the attack is on the upstart candidate, not their supporters.
Of course not. You're trying to stop people from anonymously supporting people that publicly post their opinion. That's not much better, in my eye, since in our day and age, you can not effect change alone.
>>> We are trying to stop people from spending millions of dollars on paid ads advocating the defeat of a candidate they don't like
This is an essence of politics - convincing people to adopt your point of view by explaining it to them. Including when your point of view is the candidate is bad. Imagine the worst guy you can think of - truly Hitler incarnate - is running for your city council. Would you want to be able to donate to his opponent's campaign? What if this bad guy is truly vindictive and sworn than anybody who donates to his opponent would regret that very soon? Would you want to be able to do it anonymously?
>>> Can you cite any examples of this happening?
I can cite a lot of instances where people were attacked and suffered for their speech expressed in donations, Brandon Eich being easily the most recent and prominent. However I'm pretty sure once privacy is gone, attacking the supporters would be as prominent, simply because it would be an effective tactics and there's absolutely nothing preventing its use.
Our country doesn't have a tradition of unlimited anonymous election spending. That only started happening with Citizens United in 2010. So we're not about to unleash some new torrent of attacks on previously anonymous donors.
You value privacy over transparency. I do in some areas, but not in political spending. Seems like we'll have to agree to disagree.
To be clear, Citizens United was engaged in either campaign spending, candidate advocacy, or issue advocacy, depending on how you look at their actions; it is difficult to describe what they did as 'election spending' because the money was not going towards an election. This is a meaningful distinction, and not merely semantic for a number of reasons, of which I am sure we are all aware.
There is a history of anonymous political speech in the USA, beginning with the federalist and anti-federalist papers. If one agrees that media corporations should be allowed to spend on anonymous campaign speech, then it follows that everyone else should have the same right. It is illogical to limit anonymous speech to broadcasters, publishers, as well as their friends and allies.
I'm pretty sure it does - people always donated to causes, and before the current "money in politics" panic campaign, they were anonymous for the most part. All the statutes requiring donor disclosure that I could find were pretty new. Could you bring an example of donor disclosure requirements that would qualify as "tradition"?
>>> That only started happening with Citizens United in 2010
Citizens United decision changed very little on establishing privacy or disclosure. The decision was that the government can not ban a group of people, organized as a company, labor union or any other association. It actually upheld the disclosure requirements of BRCA. Of course, since the group has no obligation to disclose its membership or revenue sources, it can be used as a vehicle for anonymous speech. But that venue always existed, it was just that BRCA unconstitutionally banned companies from political speech.
<i>You value privacy over transparency. I do in some areas, but not in political spending.</i>
It's not the question of my values. I won't be the one who would abuse disclosure requirements. It's not the question of my preferences, it's a question of consequences which would happen regardless of what you and I prefer. Ignoring this consequences because they don't align with your values won't make them go away, they still will happen. Powerful people would still abuse disclosure requirements to suppress their opponents and ruin their supporter base, regardless of what you think about it.
It's like Myspace saying "we value user experience, so we won't implement restrictive XSS filters". Then a guy named Samy comes and writes some JS code and pretty soon he owns their user experience lock, stock and barrel. Did their values help them prevent it? Not really. Now, in this case the effect is a bunch of wrong bits on the internet and a couple of mildly bruised egos. But with political campaign abuse the result would be bad laws passed, bad people elected and lives of people ruined when they opposed some bad candidate.
They date back to Watergate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_finance_reform_in_the_...
Since then, monied interests have found various ways around them, like soft money (fixed by McCain-Feingold), and now 501c4s.
The SCOTUS majority in Citizens United actually assumed that there would be full disclosure of the outside spending, since super PACs have to file with the FEC. That's been evaded by having 501c4s and other anonymous organizations listed as the donor.
As long as you keep pretending that "money is not speech" you would get surprised when people who want to speak politically would do so despite a myriad of regulations. The only way to prevent it is to restrict political speech. So far SCOTUS has been very skeptical towards such efforts, but this may be not forever, and one day First Amendment may fall. It would be a very sad day for America.
I think unlimited anonymous election spending is more of a problem than the possibility that a big donor might get bad press or be shunned by potential employers. You disagree. That's fine, let's get on with our lives and stop trying to convince each other, which obviously isn't going to happen.
> Can you cite any examples of this happening? Typically the attack is on the upstart candidate, not their supporters.
Brendan Eich. He supported an unpopular opinion at the ballot box and lost his job for it. We can debate whether it was because he _is_ a bigot or not, but there is a direct causal link between his paid support for a cause and his lost job.
This is silly at best and naive most likely. The NY Times goes after "supporters" all the time, of views they don't agree with.
The examples are too obvious to cite.
"Dark money" (using your term) isn't allowed to coordinate with the candidate's campaign. But voters don't make the distinction between candidates and their supporters.
I've spoken with campaigns who were hurt by independent expenditures by their own supporters, with messaging that reflected poorly on the candidate.
The lack of accountability creates the opportunity to sabotage a campaign. If we can imagine it, I'm sure it's been done.
This is governance, not commerce. Big difference.
You realize the elected persons are representatives? Of the people? Right? Democracy is impractical without accountability and transparency.
So might makes right?
The offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of something of value for the purpose of influencing the action of an official in the discharge of his or her public or legal duties.
How somebody using his own money to speak in support or opposition of a political candidate is "bribery" is a mystery to me. Do you have some other definition of bribery?
>>> You realize the elected persons are representatives? Of the people? Right? Democracy is impractical without accountability and transparency.
That's correct, but we're not talking about spending public money, in which spending accountability and transparency is crucial. We're talking about spending private money - in which case the accountability should be only to the people who own the money. You do not owe me any account of how you spend your own money, and I do not owe any to you.
>>> So might makes right?
Without privacy, yes, that would be the case - whoever possesses control of the government enforcement machine, would be able to suppress and intimidate anybody who dares to support their opponents.
I met Jim Greer about 7-8 years ago when Kongregate was first starting up. He definitely understands marketing and media - so I have no doubt his line of thinking will be well suited into solving this issue.
I'm sure they will "iterate" their message multiple times as they grow and see what works. As much as I dislike Grover Norquist, one can't deny that he proved the power of "pledges." Dark money is just one of many problems in Washington, so I'm glad these guys are taking it on.
I've met Jim Greer a few times, having done Clicker Heroes and Cloudstone with Kongregate.
He's one of the very few tech leaders who is clearly an honest, genuine, down-to-earth good guy. He obviously wants to do good for the world with this company, and I'm glad for it.