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Comment by ibisum | Hacker News Reader

I yearn to explore the middle east in a peaceful, productive way .. so much culture, so much for me - a white, privileged, western man - to enjoy and understand. So many mysteries, so much history, so many very, very significant things which mean so much to the species.

But yet, so many walls to climb. I would not, for a moment, hesitate to wake at 4am and join the locals, I would not - for a moment - be dissuaded from removing my shoes and joining those ancient prayers. But there is so much prejudice in the world, and I could not say for sure that I would give it all up for the chance.

If only we could find a way to have our cultures co-exist. I yearn for it. But then again, I have yet to feel the same for Europe, where I live. What a trap we live.

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I'm not sure what you mean by this. There are lots of places you can go (including the local corner store) to experience whatever Middle Eastern culture you want, and they co-exist with us just fine.

Be careful about joining the ancient prayers, though, unless you know how to perform them, and have converted to Islam. Otherwise you'll really offend people.

>Be careful about joining the ancient prayers, though, unless you know how to perform them, and have converted to Islam. Otherwise you'll really offend people.

Disagree with this, they'll likely be overjoyed that someone foreign shows positive interest in their religion.

ok, try.

This is probably one of the most offensive things you can do in Islam.

Islam isn't a monolith. It's also not a country. You should observe your locale, inquire politely, and behave respectfully, as is true with interacting with any culture you're unfamiliar with.

Your comment is downvoted, and people are posting comments like "ok, try", "this is offensive". Doesn't sound like a hackernews thread :)

There are some things you have to do before going to a mosque: unlike churches, you can't get in a mosque "just to visit" (except if they have open-hours for non-worshippers/tourists, which is unlikely for a mosque in the middle of Yemen). You have to be in a state of purity (http://www.onislam.net/english/reading-islam/understanding-i... Also, joining the prayer if you're not muslim can be troublesome, but by all means if you just get in the mosque and maybe observe people praying, I'm not sure you'll get in any trouble. Theoretically, even a rude behavior in a mosque shouldn't cause you any big problem (a man once urinated inside the prophet's mosque, and the prophet stopped some believers that wanted to punish him and just covered the part where that man urinated).

Muslims are really friendly with non-muslims that are geniunly interested (even in mosques where there are some rules to respect)

This is a really wonderful comment. What I was trying to get at is that you can't just show up and pray along with the group, like you can do in some Christian churches. There's no way to stand in the back and follow along.

In my experience, the biggest challenge you face in visiting a mosque is that people will make a sincere effort to convert you to Islam. They do this out of generosity and kindness, but it leads to some intense conversations. It is best to be ready with some good deflecting answers, unless you are considering becoming a Muslim.

I was very surprised to find myself invited to enter nearly every mosque I visited in Yemen. The only exception was the Great Mosque in Sana'a, which is closed to nonbelievers. My guess is this is because Sana'a sees a relatively large number of tourists compared to the rest of Yemen.

It would be hard to overemphasize the positive, welcoming, generous attitude of Muslims towards anyone with a sincere interest in their religion.

No, you probably won't offend anyone. I used to live in a small town in southern Alberta (Canada) and we had this guy come and pray there. After a while I learned he wasn't Muslim.. and people were mad that I asked if he was Muslim (don't remember why I did... I think I asked when did you convert).

Anyway, if you go up to any mosque and find a person you can ask, hey is it okay if I check this place out? Can I join in the prayer? Unless you meet an old uncle from the old country, they'll probably welcome it.

The mosque I go to now, in Edmonton, we have this guy that comes for the potluck. One day, the prayer is starting and I tell him, let's go pray (we were cleaning up) at which point he tells me he's not Muslim! Anyway, no biggie, he continued cleaning up while we prayed :)

I do not find it hard to believe that I'd offend Yemeni Muslims by making a haphazard attempt to pray alongside them at a mosque, because I can imagine what would happen if someone walked in off the street at my parish, got in line for a Communion wafer, and messed up that ceremony in a way that made it obvious they weren't Catholic.

Well that might be a bias based on the Catholic interpretation of scripture? For instance, in the church I was raised in you literally could not offend someone by attempting to take communion and being obviously not of their church. It was part of their creed. And I've had the pleasure of praying in a mosque when it was outright declared before hand that I was not Muslim.

Now that said, I'd buy you could easily offend someones religious sensabilities by praying an incorrect way, but you can also easily offend someone by not praying at all...

What are you some sort of hippy Unitarian? I hate to break it to you, but the real religions have rules. Catholics will just politely ask you to take the proper sacraments. Probably the same for most Muslims. I can imagine getting dumped in the desert if you accidentally attended one of the conclaved Mormon rituals.

Go and have a wander round a Sikh gurdwara.

The problem with a lot of liberal sentiment is that it can only ever work if you assume all religions are the same thing with slightly different colors and the same prayer said in a different language.

If something, like, oh, say islam's apostate laws, existed, it would be plain to everyone that you can't have freedom of religion and islam (not limited, of course, to that one religion). Only one of those can exist.

Of course that doesn't mean you can't just deny any of this exists, especially because there are liberal muslims (less than 1%, sure, but of course it doesn't look like that in San Francisco. But even in San Fran you won't have any trouble finding people who'll use violence against apostates either).

There's actually a lot of debate around apostasy laws, and a decent argument that the apostasy law actually refers to leaving Islam and committing treason against the Islamic state, not just leaving Islam. It's not as clear cut as you make out.

Inappropriate comment.

The tipoff is when you go back for seconds

You could also ask for barbecue flavor.

And then they beat them up if it's the first one doing that that day, or kill them if not. Or riot and destroy the entire town, burning down any house from anyone who doesn't have the exact right tint on his skin ?

No ?

Then, sorry to say, it's not comparable to what happens in the middle east at all.

And God forbid it's a woman were to try that.

This is of course fine for white people visiting from overseas that don't look like they should know what they're doing.

There are some types of non-muslims (open apostates) that would be putting themselves in real physical danger by entering your average mosque in Islamabad and praying. We have a local ex-muslims meetup in London and stories of threats + actual physical violence from family and "community" are more common than not.

It also goes without saying that if there's no women's section and you have a vagina, you're shit out of luck.

This is a really good point.

Knowing how to pray is important, or at least knowing the gestures,etiquette and positions, in a way that won't disrupt the prayers (because Muslims praying in congregation do use visual cues from those around them to reinforce their expectations of subsequent movements, and confusion can be contagious and annoying). Beyond that, very few Muslims would openly question you about your beliefs.

I think you're going to be a little disappointed. Most of the Arab world isn't super different from lower class Mexican towns. Not a whole lot of culture going on, really. Just a lot of unemployed dudes hanging around doing not much.

Anyway, you can simply book a flight to Jordan, or easily get a visa to Qatar. It's not dangerous or anything. Go for it.

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