Hacker News Reader

Comment by michaelt | Hacker News Reader

Well, with modern car immobilisers you can't bypass them or break them, because they're built right into the ECU that runs the spark plugs and whatnot.

There's not really an equivalent for that in bicycles - a vital electronic component that, if removed, makes the bike unusable. Sure, you can get a bike tracker on ebay, but if trackers were making a significant dent in bicycle theft, thieves would just look for them and remove or disable them. For trackers to get a signal the antennas have to be exposed, making it a simple enough matter to put a nail through the patch antenna.

View on HN

Some Chilean startup is trying to do something akin to that, embedding a big lock in the frame, so stealing the bike would render it useless (tho, of course, it's an urban-only bike).

http://nadiemelaroba.cl

The issues I see with preventing bike theft include that its just so easy to take parts off of one, so even if you could prevent taking the whole bike some of the other parts have value too.

Only solutions I see are, having secure parking for bikes offered for pay, as benefit of employment, or venue provided. What makes a bike a pain to store besides length is the handle bars and foot pegs stick out. So design a handle bar with a pin so it can be rotated alone the bikes axis when parked and folding pedals. Then you can box store them narrowly akin to bus lockers.

Still the primary deterrent to theft is putting it where its at risk and if that means not taking it, well.

Well surely the entire bicycle frame could be used as an antenna? Then the electronics could fit deep inside the frame, which would make it quite difficult to disable. A problem would be how to power the device though.

Maybe the tracker could be powered by usage of the bike.

You want the wheels on a bike to spin as freely as possible, any added resistance is unwelcome because it makes cycling harder - and you would need to add resistance to generate electricity. Personally I even hate the dynamos that power the lights, because their effect can definitely be felt when you ride.

I wonder if vibration would suffice? Depends on the state of the roads I guess. ;)

Modern electronics don't really need that much, and/or the dynamos have improved. I had a bike with 90s-style dynamo and it was indeed a slight pain. Today I ride Bixi/Alta bikeshare bicycles - they have something to power the lights, but any impedance it creates is too small to notice.

Hub dynamos are very efficient. I do not feel a difference riding with or without one. For street speeds of around 20km/h in an urban environment they create mechanical drag of around 6 watts [1] with the lights switched on.

http://www.bikequarterly.com/VBQgenerator.pdf

What about something like Microdots which can be applied to the frame and other parts? They seem to be common in places to deter theft of cars and other items

http://www.mydatatags.com/

From http://www.mydatatags.com/how-it-works/how-microdots-work

> Step 4

> Recover Your Property

> If the police or a good Samaritan find your lost or stolen assets marked with our microtag technology and contacts MyDataTags, we will inform you and give you their contact information so you can recover your personal property.

So it's a serial number that nobody will notice (1mm black dot) or be able to read (I would assume it's gunk to be scratched off, not taken to with a magnifying glass).

Maybe I'm missing their key point, but on a bicycle the reasonable responsible buyer will just run the serial through whatever stolen registry is most popular in their area, not scour the bike for tiny secret illuminati codes.

A responsible buyer will require an original invoice that matches the frame number, or assume that the bike is stolen.

I certainly don't have the original invoice for my 15-year-old bike.

I've had two bikes stolen, both correctly registered in every relevant registry and one with microdots. Not a word.

The economics are extremely simple: There is a significant market for "don't ask, don't tell [if they're stolen]" bicycles. The same probably exists for cars which is why it took immobilizers (not frame/engine serial numbers) to curb theft.

A further complication makes a bicycle immobilizer impractical: It is trivial and not even very conspicuous to carry a bicycle quite far, or stick it in a car. That allows you to remove the bicycle to a private location where you can remove or destroy the immobilizer - if you could do the same with a car, I'm sure immobilizers would be less effective.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com