Foursquare Now Tracks Users Even When the App Is Closed | Hacker News Reader

Foursquare Now Tracks Users Even When the App Is Closed

blogs.wsj.com

100 pointspetethomas42 comments

For what it's worth, iOS 8 has separate permissions for foreground and background location usage. I got the background usage permission alert ~5 minutes after installing the app.

Glad to hear the foreground/background permission is coming in iOS 8. I use Foursquare when I want to search for places nearby to eat, and the occasional checkin, but always go in and enable location for it before using and turn off after. Most of the time I forget to turn it off and still see the location indicator beaming when I get home, thinking to myself "they tracked me this time, darn!". Same goes for google maps too though, so its not like Foursquare is the only one.

One of the selling points of the new app is that it will proactively alert you when you are near a restaurant that matches your tastes. Like if you say you like pulled pork, and pass a great BBQ place, it will let you know.

So, that feature pretty clearly requires "tracking users even when the app is closed."

They have been doing that for a while.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7037575

The weird thing it seems they just started doing is displaying places it thinks you've been recently, along with all your past check-ins. It's not particularly accurate either.

I thought they had been doing this for a while too, the location indicator is usually active in iOS, even when Foursquare is not running. Go into location privacy and it shows Foursquare as the one getting location.

Meanwhile my dad's flashlight app on Android was accessing his location, contacts, calls, messages, network traffic and many more stuff without him knowing it.

It's funny how Android OS is on the app developer's side in case of the privacy but iOS cares so much about user's privacy

You still have to approve permissions during the app installation on Android. Its made pretty clear exactly what is being accessed.

You really think anyone looks at that, much less OP's father?

Presumably OP's father doesn't pay more attention to iOS privacy settings, then.

Consider this: You really want a flashlight app. You go download the app and see a list of permissions. You really just want to have a light so you go ahead and click okay.

Now on iOS, you download the app and open it. A dialog pops up that says: "May DubiousFlashlight access your contacts?" Of course you tap no. Your contacts are safe and the flashlight still works.

I think the main problem is that on Android, it's the standard that most app will have need a ridiculous list of permissions. Just look at the permissions of the topmost entries for basic apps like barcode readers, flashlights, compasses and so on. Now try the same on iOS and look what permissions you will be asked for, and which permissions you will need to actually use the app. Imo, iOS protects the average user much better than Android.

This is only the case on the crap-infested, ad-riddled Play Store. On a market like F-Droid, where the apps respect your freedom, they also respect your privacy much more. The flashlight apps available there only require the permissions they need, and don't collect any kind of personal information.

This is both true and irrelevant for the vast majority of users, who will do what they're sold.

I disagree. As a user of both platforms, iOS's privacy settings are clearer (each permission is requested separately) and more granular (not all-or-nothing).

I do not read through the massive list of permissions every app requires when installing on Android. On iOS I do think about whether or not I want to give an app a permission when it asks for it.

Yes.

To answer your obvious follow up, yes, from people not in tech.

That's completely different.

Even if you take the time to sift through the list of permissions, you haven't installed the app yet, so it is completely unclear what the app needs the permissions for.

On iOS, you are using the app already and will be prompted when it tries to access a resource. Given the app context, it is much easier to understand why that permission is being requested.

I have a bunch of apps on Android that I haven't updated precisely because they are asking for new permissions and I have no clue why. Maybe if I could see new functionality I'd be able to understand why they need more permissions now.

I am a developer. An ordinary user will either not care or not understand this.

OT, but it doesn't much matter to me, as I've dissociated from the service and uninstalled all apps after the forced Swarm switchover. The dual-app UX is a mind-bendingly bad idea.

The whole idea of the new Foursquare app is to make recommendations based on where you are and who you follow.

Foursquare needs to know where you are to do that...

They don't need to know, they want to know. They can use a number of signals to make recommendations such as checkins, friends, hearts etc... without knowing my location every few minutes.

except they removed checkins now. you can't depend on users using a second app

That was their own choice.

This is for location-based recommendations, like "hey, you are near a great place to eat." So it does need to know your location.

This assumes I'm interested in eating right now. Know when I'm interested in eating? When I open my recommendation app.

Codezero is correct - "need" is the issue.

Foursquare isn't paying me (or exchanging something of significant value) for that constant stream of location data.

THAT is the issue I have with it

Eh, they sort of are paying you indirectly for your checkins.... They are paying a significant amount to a full time staff working on a free app that you use without paying them any money.

You're receiving the benefit of their work in exchange for information about which businesses you frequent, which is them paying you for that location data.

Foursquare isn't paying me (or exchanging something of significant value) for that constant stream of location data.

Are you paying them for their recommendation service?

> (or exchanging something of significant value)

You are correct. It doesn't have to be cash, Stackoverflow & XBox Live is a classic example gamification.

Then uninstall the app, nobody's forcing you to keep it.

I don't understand your point.

I haven't used their app for years because there just wasn't any value in it (for me).

Wait what? How can you take issue with anything Foursquare does then? They aren't taking your data without paying you if they aren't taking your data.

Ignore them. They are being obtuse and argumentative. Just down vote and move on.

I'm pretty sure this doesn't need to be said, but everyone is allowed to take issue with things that they are not directly involved in. It's part of how society works.

I can typically get through an entire day on one charge, but after enabling background tracking, my battery hit 30% by mid day. It's now disabled.

Foursquare updated its privacy policy this week to warn users that with the new version of the app tracks and sometimes shares users’ locations even when the app is closed.

Fun. Kind of like when one of your insurance provides radically alters your coverage, and then buries this fact in some mandatory disclosure paragraph that they know you probably aren't going to read anyway.

I would so hate to be working for Foursquare now.

Is this to serve as a reminder for all who have long since used the service to uninstall the app?

You can turn off the constant access to location service in settings of the app.

Constantly tracking a user destroys their battery life, really lazy move on foursquare part. At no point would you ever think constant location tracking is friendly to a user's battery.

"Starting today, users who download or update the Foursquare app will automatically let the company track their GPS coordinates any time their phone is powered on. Foursquare previously required users to give the app permission to turn on location-tracking. Now users must change a setting within the app to opt out."

A bit misleading... For users that had Location Services turned enabled for Foursquare (iOS), there is no additional opt in because they have already opted in in the past. But any new users still will get prompted to allow Foursquare to use Location Services. So it is still opt-in. The fact that Foursquare is checking your location periodically is not surprising as it will give the company more data to improve its service...

> The fact that Foursquare is checking your location periodically is not surprising

The fact that Foursquare checks my location when I use the app is not suprising.

The fact that they track my every move, even when the app is not running is absolutely surprising to me, and I bet to the average user as well.

Really? I bet the average user isn't aware of whether the app is "running" at any given time or not, and a not-insignificant subset of users wouldn't know how to find out.

they'd just be annoyed at the battery life of their fancy new phone going down so fast.

For that single reason, I adore Android's "this app ate this much battery" statistics.

And if they're using the 'offline' locations in recommendations, it will dawn on people that the app has been stalking them.

iPhones have a separate processor for that. Not really an issue. It's even better in ios8 with regard to battery life tracking. As for the tracking, it asks for permissions and is fairly obvious what it's doing. Yes, if you avoid reading or doing any level of discovery... If you just blindly install the app without thought, you could claim surprise. I find most people assume far worse than the opposite. Ask for location permissions, and they assume they are getting tracked by someone who is watching them in real time through their phones camera.

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