How to turn small talk into smart conversation | Hacker News Reader

How to turn small talk into smart conversation

ideas.ted.com

74 pointsdmilanp39 comments

These suggestions are dreadful.

> Instead of 'Where are you from?' try 'What’s the strangest thing about where you grew up?'

> Instead of, 'Yes, it is a beautiful day!' try 'They say that the weather was just like this when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. If that actually happened.'

If the goal is to have a pleasant and interesting conversation, dropping non-sequiturs isn't going to get you there.

And this is advice for introverts? Many introverts I know would crash and burn using these lines -- they already struggle with being awkward without throwing out, “What would you like your name to mean?”

I agree with you that for the most part the suggested alternative conversation starters range from pretty bad to hilariously bad. But I was very glad to read this short article because the larger idea put forth in the article is very thought-provoking, and is really good advice. You'll have to use your own creativity to try to spark an interesting conversation, but I feel a little energized by the challenge.

Why do you suppose people are so interested by self-help and "life hacks," but in general we're not actually that motivated for self improvement?

(see what I did there?)

It's a much better conversation starter than the suggested ones in the article.

"And this is advice for introvert? Many introverts... "

Better being awkward than being a pusillanimous.

So what if they burn? It is not the end of world if someone finds you awkward, or laughs at you. It is the end of the world if you want to improve and do not have the courage to look stupid temporarily until you find your own path.

I understood those to be attempts at humor, not actual lines you should use in a conversation. One of the authors is a comedian.

Yes, these sound almost as bad as pickup artist lines.

Yeah, especially since the first one ("Where are you from?") is pretty easy to use for transitioning the conversation away from small talk and into something more interesting.

Or just be genuinely interested in people. Everybody has something interesting and if you dig you will find it.

If the goal is to make the conversation interesting/smart, it starts with great difficulty because what sounds interesting/smart to one may be just dull/stupid to another.

Most people may feel a little reluctant when someone else is digging, but that is only because they have grown an instinct to honestly disbelieve anyone may be truly interested in knowing them for nothing.

Since we can't worry how people feel about our little inquiries, we can only ask and be honestly interested in knowing more about others, discovering more.

Except for those who would genuinely want to be honestly interested in learning more, but ... aren't. Because wanting to be interested isn't the same as being interested, and it often shows - creating a conversational awkwardness that's even worse than it otherwise would have been.

Hackers will hack just about everything except their personality even when it can be to their advantage.

I do not go to Starbucks with the intention of striking a conversation with strangers and try to find something interesting.

I do go out with the intention of talking to whomever I want to talk to even if my second thought after realizing this is negative, and even if I am afraid of others reaction.

It fails most of the time, but I think over time I will get better at it.

It seems to me that if someone is just honestly interested in meeting people and hearing whatever about them, then they are by nature rather social and extroverted and scarcely need advice on how to start conversations. For most people who aren't social butterflies, conversations are either simple social gestures or they actually have a point. When they have a point, you should ask what interests you, and if it interests them too, then you've found someone with whom a conversation could be worthwhile.

> For most people who aren't social butterflies, conversations are either simple social gestures or they actually have a point.

I think that's only partly true. In my life I've gone from extremely shy, 'introverted' and lonely to socially active and 'extraverted'. Both were not optimal and thankfully I think I've found a balance that works for me.

An important part of finding that balance was to accept that for a lot of my friends, especially the extraverts, 'simple social gestures' and small-talk type conversations do have a point. They need those.

And I'd be a bad friend if I didn't learn to do that occasionally, in the same way that they'd be bad friends if they wouldn't let me monologue about some subject I just spent a week reading about in isolation (where 'bad' means partly 'not a nice person', and partly 'just not a great match as friends).

I think any smart conversation should start, at least, on the second question. A "How are you?" and "What's your name?" are great first questions. Don't bother finding very clever alternatives. But pay attention to how people respond to it. You can sense if they are in a hurry, worried about other things, not interested at all in you as a person, etc. In these cases, just leave it. Not every conversation must be the most smart and productive one. And not every person is worthy your effort (specially those don't even bother to look at you when you are talking).

But if there is room, then you can start with clever, original questions. But the second question, should also sounds friendly, not creepy. The best way to do this I think it is to make a subtle compliment. A try might be "You look like an artist,what kind of artist are you? I would guess painter/singer/writer".

Or funny self-awareness "Do you think people who make small talk with strangers are annoying?".

Then you assess again the reactions... and hopefully a smarter conversation begins.

Smalltalk is often smalltalk because we don't want to waste mental bandwidth with the conversation and yet don't want to offend. I agree that probing this state is exactly why we should use brand conversation starters, unless you are clearly in a position where you might want to talk.

That's probably difficult to see for a comedian, since he's never wasting mental bandwidth with conversations -- it's the thing they do!

"(specially those don't even bother to look at you when you are talking)" I often look mostly at the floor or at the sky when listening or talking to someone. It usually helps me to concentrate on the content of the conversation - and I noticed that I do that during the most engaging and interesting rather than the most boring ones.

I used it as a proxy. It is easier to notice than to describe both when someone don't want to talk to you in that particular moment or when someone don't really care about you as a person. I am not the kind of guy that looks in the eyes when talking either, but I think there is a kind of not looking that demonstrate you are concentrated on the conversation and a kind of not looking that demonstrate that you are a fly annoying the person.

Upvoted because the suggestions are so bad that they merit discussion.

As someone who, growing up, decided to break out of the introvert pattern by applying such non sequiturs as suggested, I can tell you truly that the only thing such a tactic will do is get you labelled as weird ;)

Also: “What’s your story?”

Sounds only one step removed from: "What's your problem?"

But isn't it better to be weird than to be boring?

I'm just flat out socially retarded, and desperately lonely. Reading this, I felt a twinge of excitement at the suggestion that I might break out of the box with a little creativity. I kind of took it as saying, "don't be afraid to be weird".

I think my fear of revealing how crazy I am probably accounts for a good deal of what holds me back. The idea of it being okay to be weird, or at least, unexpectedly thoughtful and inquisitive, seems a rather hopeful one. (Sadly, I'm absolutely clueless as to whether that's actually the case.)

> But isn't it better to be weird than to be boring?

That depends on your objectives, but if the goal is to make or have friends that you like to be around, I'd agree. I'm not very weird, but I have become rather more openly myself, which I'd say by definition makes me seem a bit weird at times. The result has been that most of my friends are also a little weird, or enjoy me being myself.

However, I'd argue that this only works if you're honestly weird. Just yourself, really. Being quirky to mask insecurity or a boring life can often come across as annoying and fake.

If your goal is to not be lonely, and not in the first place to 'be yourself' as well, I'd say a much more effective approach is to become a good listener. Everyone likes good listeners, and it's a (relatively) easy thing to learn. In my more lonely and insecure periods of life I often just asked questions and listened, and after doing just that for an entire conversation, people would often remark how wonderful the conversation was.

Obviously this is not ideal in the long run, as it can be quite tedious and annoying to just listen to others, but as a basis for forming connections it's very effective.

> I'm just flat out socially retarded, and desperately lonely.

That sucks, and I've been there. I still find myself weird and strange, and there are still many times where I feel like the odd person in the group. Yet I've managed to somehow gather a pretty sizable collection of weirdly honest people that range from acquaintances to good friends. I don't know if I can give you good suggestions, but I do know that for me this process has been quite 'conscious' and deliberate.

If you'd like to talk about this sometime, let me know! I'd be happy to chat (and/or meet in person if you happen to be nearby). Loneliness is the worst!

Possibly. I think a lot of it depends on the people you're trying it with.

It's probably a safe assumption that the peer group I tried it with then (high school) reacted quite a bit differently than my current peer group would (largely very intelligent coworkers).

It's a delicate balance between being polite (toeing your partner's comfort zone), provocative (so they actually have to think about the answer), and funny or interesting (catch them off guard, be entertained).

When you're starting out you'll accidentally dip too far off either of these scales, but you can just apologise and calmly change tactic. Eventually you'll intuitively "feel" the conversation. And remember, some people are just too prudish, boring, or disinterested to be good conversationalists — feel free to politely "thank you" out of a conversation.

Sometimes it's better to be weird than boring, sometimes vice versa.

Certainly if you are "desperately lonely", that sounds like a situation where you might want to take (at least) a few (modest) risks to make a few more personal connections, absolutely. Yeah, don't be terrified of being weird, or being seen as weird.

But I think if you want to make a connection, artificially-weird is not, i.m.h.o., your best strategy. And I think that's what's being suggested in TFA (perhaps jokingly). I'd consider aiming instead towards more honesty, and that means (a little) more vulnerability.

Now, if your honesty reveals that in some particular ways you are a weird person (which would, in general, be a good sign of being potentially interesting and worth connecting with), well, that might work against you in some instances. Or it might work for you in some instances. If it's important that you gain the trust of this particular stranger right now (perhaps a cop who is considering arresting you), maybe you wanna try to downplay the weirdness in this particular interaction, to avoid ugly outlier reactions.

But in the making-friends department (and in the finding-lovers department, if you're not Wilt Chamberlain), the goal is not to be everything to everybody. The goal is to winnow the chaff of the public-at-large to find people whom you like, and who like you. So take some chances, put a few people off. If you get rejected (or you yourself reject) 99% of the population... well, just try making friends with 1000 people (say one a day for 3 years) and you'll have no shortage of friends. Being "normal" is a liability! Your weirdness may bore or repel most people... but someone eventually will find your weirdness interesting or attractive.

So, if you need to go with non sequiturs to break a fear of doing anything interesting at all, well, that's a start. But I think it would be better to seek topics that might be genuinely interesting to both parties (unlike, say, conspiracy theories about Pearl Harbour, which probably aren't genuinely interesting to either party, even if they're more interesting than super-boring small talk).

For example, a strategy I respect very much is to ask people about themselves or their life (hopefully in a way that flows fluidly from a sentence or two of small talk), and when their story includes something that surprises or interests you, ask questions about that interesting or improbable aspect. (I wonder if Alton is reading this.)

My apologies if any of the foregoing sounds patronizing or otherwise insulting.

Good luck with the loneliness, you have my sympathy.

The outgoing people you meet will have met many people, including crazier than you. The crazy people you meet might think you're normal, or be happy to have met another crazy. I was stalked for a year - I bet I wouldn't think you're crazy.

There is a non-creepy, non-awkward, inoffensive way to deliver "What's your story," and maybe one person in every 100 is capable of pulling it off. Not for the beginning small talker. This is, like, postgrad-level small talk, where you're being tongue-in-cheek about your small talk, and using playful small talk to call attention to itself.

Personally I ask random people "What's your story" all the time at parties. It's been a great conversation starter every time. I think it only works with the younger crowd though (~20s or people who still want to act like they're in their 20s). I can't see a mature 40 year old responding well to that type of question.

It could just be that I'm envisioning entirely the wrong voice tone and body language when I picture someone asking this -- I can only see it coming across as hostile/aggressive, prying, or downright creepy.

I can certainly see it that way, but just as easily see it as a variant of "So, what do you do?" but more open-ended. It definitely depends on tone, delivery, body language, etc. as well as the conversation leading up to it.

As an opening line, it would tend to put the other person on the defensive, I agree. In that circumstance it's more like "So, why are you here?" with the implication that you shouldn't be.

While most of these suggestions are terrible, think of the message they're trying to send: ask open ended questions that promote discussion and answer with real answers.

On asking open ended questions, I have a few questions I always fall back to. If meeting someone new, I ask "If you had to describe your life in one sentence, what would it be?". In an silent pause with friends I'll ask "if you had $10,000 and couldn't don anything rational, what would you spend it on?".

On answering with real answers, I do just that. If asked how your day is going, say how you really feel instead of "good". Often this opens up a deeper discussion, but you can always choose to say "good" if that's socially appropriate.

"Hypothetically, if you were to launder $500,000, how would you want to do it?"

"I have no idea, give me a few hours to think about it" :P

Maybe the part with absurd answers could make some sense if done properly (however, mastering the usage of absurd is not easy - there's a thin line between being intriguing and pathetic), but if someone would use this "telling the story" questions during the conversation with me I'd just be annoyed - especially if that would be a stranger. That's some meaningless stuff where you don't even have any slightest idea of where to start when answering, unless you go into absurd as well, which may or may not be the way to go depending on your mood, person you're talking to, etc.

If Gino responds to "It's hot today" with "In this dimension, yes." Beverley is most probably done talking to him, even if they both are all by themselves in a jacuzzi.

I'm sorry but the can't finish this conversation any other way that:

Ron: How was your flight? Carlos: I’d be more intrigued by an airline where your ticket price was based on your body weight and IQ. Ron: Go fuck yourself!

Beverly: It’s hot today. Gino: In this dimension, yes. Beverly: Go fuck yourself!

Riz: What’s up? Keil: Washing your chicken just splatters the bacteria everywhere. ...

Yip, go fuck yourself twice, Riz!

I was pretty introverted until I figured it was just another form of selfishness. People stress me out, but generally it's just another "mirroring" effect. I'm stressing them out just as badly. Of course things go sideways in that situation.

These will just show you are too much full of yourself and trying too hard to be funny.

Can't wait to try this for the next networking event. Being an introvert in this pro-extrovert society makes me feel pretty much a square pegs in round holes

Most suggestions were given by Phoebe Buffay.

> "They say that the weather was just like this when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. If that actually happened."

If your goal is to get instantly binned into the same category as 9/11 truthers, moon landing doubters, and holocaust deniers, this might be a good suggestion.

That's supposed to be a joke, not an actual suggested line to use in a conversation.

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