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Comment by mpenn | Hacker News Reader

Miles Penn here, cofounder of MTailor. Feel free to post any questions -- happy to answer them!

This looks very cool - enough that I finally created an account to ask you a question. Can you tell me a bit about the production process for the shirts? Are they made in the US? If overseas, what kind of assurances do you have about working conditions, etc in the factory? If you can vouch for decent working conditions, it would be a big selling point for me (and, I think, for many others).

(In Australia) there's conflict between VERY cheap clothing vs "work conditions".

How much more would you pay? 10% 20%?

cpayne, I don't quite understand your question.

Since we don't make VERY cheap clothing, squeezing pennies by using harsh working conditions hasn't been something we've wanted to pursue.

This question might have been to me - I try only to buy reasonably ethically made clothing, and figure on paying up to a 50% or so premium for it. I buy a lot of Patagonia and Ibex, but dress shirts are a problem (suits would be too, but luckily I don't have to deal with that very often). I do think that new models of manufacturing have the potential to ameliorate some of the ethical problems as well, by shrinking the supply chain back down so that retailers actually have some idea of what's going on in their factories. Everlane is an example of what I'm thinking about, but I didn't love the shirt I ordered from there, and they only have S/M/L sizing.

I feel honored about your account creation :-).

Our shirts are made by hand by professional manufacturers in China. We work with them closely to ensure that every shirt meets our high standards and is what a customer would love.

Since we make higher end custom shirts which require skilled labor (custom vs. off-the-rack), we focus on quality rather than squeezing out every penny on the manufacturing side. I hope that helps.

The reason we can offer high end custom shirts for $69 is that we cut out the expensive measurement process -- a tailor normally spends at least 30 minutes with you for measuring, while we do it with software. We also have fewer returns (since we're more accurate) and we have fewer mistakes (software vs. writing by hand). Additionally, we sell direct to consumer, so there's no retailer markup on top of us.

The thing that i'd most like to see in the web site is pictures of the shirt styles on people rather than just fabric swatches.

Yes, the website is definitely a work in progress. Most of our efforts have been focused on improving the app, but totally understand!

Right now, you can only see our selection in the app. The website right now is essentially a landing page to drive you to the app (where all our functionality is).

Where can I even see fabric swatches without downloading the app?

How does the "measure with your iPhone" thing work? That seems to be the most error-prone part of the entire process, yet you claim very high accuracy? That would seem to imply that you can somehow get accurate measurements out of the camera?

My cofounder and I spent over a year developing the measurement technology -- it's a ton of math / machine learning. The process is also easy to do (you don't need to stand as still as a statue or anything).

We also really stand behind that 20% number. We brought 4 professional tailors in and 35 people, and we were 20% more accurate than the professional tailors. If anyone wants, I can go into more detail on the calculations of us vs. tailors.

Please, do tell. Is there a whitepaper or blog post somewhere about how this technology works? Also, do you suppose you could get better results from a consumer depth-camera, such as the Kinect?

No white paper or blog post explaining the behind-the-scenes stuff (kept proprietary for now, but we may write something later).

Yes, the Kinect would probably be more accurate (it was one of our original ideas), but it wouldn't have made a very good business. No one would have been able to easily use it in his home (not many people own a Kinect, 3rd party apps for xbox aren't big and when I have seen a Kinect, it doesn't capture your whole body).

We found that our accuracy is more than sufficient for shirts (we've shipped a bunch already and gotten overwhelmingly positive feedback). Accuracy is just 1 aspect of a great looking shirt though; style is also really important, and we've spent a long time refining that as well.

Realized I didn't actually explain the measurement process. You put the phone down by leaning against a wall (or chair or something else), stand ~10 feet away (so your whole body is in frame) and do 1 spin. The software takes care of the rest. The app walks you through in much more detail how to do it. You also need to be in contour fitting clothing, so it's recommended to be at home.

Any reason to have it that way rather than shirtless? (My guess is that shirtless would be more accurate, but that you guys decided the privacy tradeoff was not worth it for the minimal accuracy gain.)

When you do it in the app, it does say that shirtless and briefs or boxer briefs are OK. I assume that fully nude would also be OK, but I guess they didn't want to go there. ;)

As trevyn mentioned, we have both options -- shirtless or a contour fitting shirt. We've found there's no accuracy difference.

You can't wear a normal, loose t-shirt or shirt; that unfortunately destroys our accuracy.

I just tried it. The UX is truly amazing.

Thanks! We have worked really hard to make the measurement process easy to do, testing with dozens of people for months.

Ok, some more of the statistics on the 20% number.

We had each tailor measure each person across 17 different measurements. Across those 4 tailors (on each person and each measurement), you could see a standard deviation. So then we also looked at the standard deviation of the average of those 4 tailors vs. the MTailor software's system. Our standard deviation was 20% lower.

Happy to go into even more detail if people are interested!

Looks like a really cool product. Are you thinking of moving to android? Don't mean to nit pick but you are mixing up accuracy and precision. If your standard of deviation is 20% lower, then you are more precise then professional tailors. Accuracy denotes some distance from some "true" value. Accuracy != Precision http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision

Definitely planning on Android (but not for a few months).

You're definitely right about precision vs. accuracy. The phrase never polled as well. Maybe if we'd run our surveys in the statistics department it would have been different. :-)

Regardless of what polls tell you, calling precision accuracy is inaccurate.

I'd love to know more detail, if you can share it without spilling the secret sauce.

From the video, we build a full 3D scan of you (lots of math / machine learning here). Then we essentially take a digital tape measure to your 3D scan.

This isn't iPhone related but perhaps others will find the project interesting:

http://openfitlab.com

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kylemcdonald/9150428195/in/poo...

Is there an easy way to send these measurements over to a company and have them create clothing for you? I briefly went through the site but it looks like this is mainly for home tailoring.

No, not that I can tell :/

Just placed an order after loving the measuring experience, here are some thoughts and questions.

* I would have felt better if it had said something like "we believe you're a 38" chest with a 15" neck circumference" so that I could eyeball whether or not what you've done really worked.

* Definitely would love to see the fabrics on people! Shows how good your product looks.

* I would LOVE an option for a third collar button as well as for a pocket button. If I'm getting a bespoke shirt, I want it the way I like to wear a shirt!

* To order again, I'll need a statement on your work conditions.

Thanks for placing an order, and thank you for the feedback!

We don't actually process your measurements in real time, which is why we couldn't say what your measurements are when you finish.

For fabric selection, we're working on nice photographs of real shirts made (just takes time and money) -- it's actually the #1 complaint we get.

We can definitely do a pocket button. We may be able to do a 3rd collar button. If you would like those options, please email support@mtailor.com, and we'll see what we can make for you.

What kind of statement would you like? As I stated previously, since we make higher end custom shirts which require skilled labor (custom vs. off-the-rack), we focus on quality rather than squeezing out every penny on the manufacturing side. Don't know if that's what you are looking for though.

That statement is wiggly and doesn't actually tell me anything about your labor policy. Does your organization fall under the requirements of the City of Portland Sweatshop Free Procurement Policy [1]? It's one of the best ways to tell if an apparel company uses unexploited labor. If you do not fit all the criteria, where do you come short and why?

[1]: A direct link to the relevant document for apparel companies. http://www.portlandonline.com/shared/cfm/image.cfm?id=218026

Just curious how long delivery takes. I made a test order 7-10 days ago and am holding off going to norstroms.

It takes ~2 weeks to make your shirt and another 1/2 week for delivery.

Just checked on your order, and it should be finished by the 6th and hopefully get to you by the 8th (may be the following Monday though).

just some dumb ideas:

for people outside the US, you might sell the measuring app?

I'd love to print my patterns and take them to my own tailor...

besides if you could provide advice in what is the best shirt for my body shape, neck length and face... that would be appreciated too.

We have definitely thought about licensing outside the US. However, we should be able to figure out the logistics of shipping shirts internationally in the next few months, so we should be shipping worldwide soon!

When you say advice, do you mean for off-the-rack shirts, or shirts you would buy from us?

Great idea. What is the best way to get in contact with you?

Miles and I are on HN or you can shoot us an email at support@mtailor.com - one of us will get to it there.

Can’t seem to find your contact information here on HN so I have just shot you through an email to your support email.

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