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Comment by schmidp | Hacker News Reader

I once nearly lost access to my coinbase account when I got a new iPhone and lost my 2-factor-authentication codes I had stored with the Google Authenticator app. I then stupidly managed to delete my fallback phone number from coinbase. Luckily I had clicked "Remember this computer for 30 days" and managed to transfer all of my bitcoins away from coinbase before loosing access to the account.

I tried their support, but they never really tried to help. While their vault seems like a good idea, I would not trust them with my bitcoins anymore :-/

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That kind of thing just makes me trust them more, I don't want people to be able to talk around the support staff to get to my Bitcoins and I actually wish my bank done the same.

That being said I don't trust any third party with any of my wallets full stop at the moment.

If they would have denied helping me because of some security policy, I would agree with you, but their support didn't understand the problem and just stopped responding.

What if you run into a bug? From my experience I would not expect to get any qualified help.

I wonder if you can sue them, or if there is other legal recourse. Probably.

Probably not. These days as a consumer you can't really sue companies you do business with because they make you agree to arbitrate any disputes. It's nutty.

Briefly checking the Coinbase TOS reveals this:

> 8.2. Arbitration; Waiver of Class Action. EXCEPT FOR CLAIMS FOR INJUNCTIVE OR EQUITABLE RELIEF OR CLAIMS REGARDING INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS (WHICH MAY BE BROUGHT IN ANY COMPETENT COURT WITHOUT THE POSTING OF A BOND), ANY DISPUTE ARISING UNDER THIS AGREEMENT SHALL BE FINALLY SETTLED ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE AMERICAN ARBITRATION ASSOCIATION'S RULES FOR ARBITRATION OF CONSUMER-RELATED DISPUTES AND YOU AND COINBASE HEREBY EXPRESSLY WAIVE TRIAL BY JURY.

https://coinbase.com/legal/user_agreement

I wonder if that really applies in this case / would hold up. I mean, if I do not enter into a contract with Coinbase and they come to have property that belongs to me and refuse to release it to me, I can surely sue them.

I'm not sure that you can get someone to sign away basic property rights in a contract.

Analogously, if I lose my password to my bank's website, I bet I can legally force them to return my funds.

You do enter into a contract with Coinbase though, by signing up you have to agree to that. Banks are different (highly regulated, but also house real hard currency!) and simply losing a password isn't going to have the same effect.

There was an interesting article about this in the NYT recently. Apparently arbitration clauses do have a decent chance of standing up to challenge. It's discomforting because when all the vendors in a space have the clause there is no way to have your right to trial.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/your-money/a-closer-look-a...

It's even more dubious in finance because you not only agree to arbitration, but you agree to arbitration by the private financial regulatory organization Finra. Think about that--to get a brokerage account you must agree to arbitration through Wall Street's self-funded watchdog. Unsurprisingly Wall Street has a great track record in winning.

I'm confused as to how this is Coinbase's fault.

The entire point of two factor authentication is that it's impossible for someone to access your account without knowing your password and having access to your code generator. You chose to lose your code generator by getting a new phone without backing it up, AND you removed the phone backup that was provided for you.

This is like getting a new keychain, throwing out your old keys, then getting angry at your bank because you can't get into your safe deposit box.

Actually, there are ways to work around such user mistakes in software.

You could ask for 2FA code confirmation before removing a backup phone.

Or you could decline removing the only backup phone available, requiring at least one backup phone on file.

Users always screw up, it's software's (developer's) job to deal with it.

I've always found the coinbase team to be highly proficient, and much better educated than any other customer support team I've ever worked with. I certainly (and do) trust coinbase with my bitcoins.

They are 1000x more proficient and professional than MtGox ever was (not that that's saying much...)

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