Ask HN: Graduate early? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Graduate early?

26 pointsPieSquared70 comments

Hello, HN.

I'm a junior in high school. I have the option of attempting to graduate early.

What do you think of that?

I don't know whether it should be done.

Here's backstory: I'm a junior. By the end of this year, I will have completed Multivariable Calculus, if that matters, and would've taken 7 APs. There are still some interesting classes to take next year in my school, but I'm thinking maybe there would be less crap to deal with in college, and more learning; I'm also not sure of advantages of staying in high school.

I'm thinking that life is short, so there's no reason to waste it, and I might as well skip a year.

I'd like your take on this. Thanks so much.

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I would advise going against going to college a year early. However graduating from high school a year early is a different issue. Is it possible for you to do something really creative with a year off? For example be an exchange student in a foreign country and do year 12 there. This would be good for you because :

(a) you don't get to college too young

(b) you still will be able to socialise/date within your peer group

(d) living in a different country is an awesome experience

(e) you don't have to worry about the foreign language hurting you academically.

Think about it.

As someone who graduated HS at 15 and Uni at 17 mostly due to skipping years whenever it was offered I'll say go for it.

However, be aware that first year uni is even more pitifully easy than final year high school where the teachers know you and are willing to give you extra work.

You can pick up socializing wherever you want. I did it in a mixture post-grad philosophy classrooms and dance classes.

I'm 20 now and on a perfectly sensible salary with my student loan now a very minor consideration.

If I could offer my own experience, I had a similar situation my junior year of highschool. I chose to stay for my senior year. At that point, there was no academic reason for me to stay in school, so I had actually loaded myself up with courses from a particular teacher simply so I could spend more time with him in classes (he was our schools CS teacher, so although I was in classes ranging from AP Comp Sci to Math for Seniors II [low level math], I spent my time being mentored in comp sci). I also spent alot of time in the art room. Otherwise, I had only been in that school district for about 2 years, so I did not have many relationships with any of the other students.

Basically, I think what was positive about my experience was that I was able to spend time with an experienced programmer (he unfortunately left the following year, but he had years of experience building businesses and had a doctorate in CS, so it was pretty awesome). But honestly, if that teacher was not there, it would have been a total waste of my time. Highschool sucked for my social experience, and it was mainly in college that I felt I found my place amongst my peers. Freshman year in college was pretty much that same as highschool regarding the people (and I went to a tiny private tech school), but as I got into the later years, it was definitely easier to find people that I wanted to surround myself with (motivated, smart people). The courses were hit or miss, some were really great, others were a waste of time, but unlike highschool, these courses were usually only for an hour a week. And of course, there's tons of organizations and clubs to join, whether it's with the school or the town the college is in.

So really, if there's something you think you wouldn't want to miss out in a last year in highschool, whether it is building a relationship with someone/some group of people, or taking some particular classes, I'd stay. But if there's nothing there for you, move on. You'll spend the year bored and annoyed that you are wasting 6 hours of the day essentially locked up in a building, when in college, you'll be able to go on to more interesting things in a less restricted setting. Or if you take the year off, you'll have free time to do whatever projects you want to, or go to random places.

Good luck with whatever you decide ;D

Fucking drop out of school now, it's a waste of time in general and if you manage your money right, you could end up ahead of everyone who pays huge school fees working at Wal-Mart for minimum wage, or some other kind of shitty job like that.

E: Frankly I don't care about your predicament, but the fact that you wrote this on the internet says something about you. There are several ways to interpret it, and none of them are good.

2E: I graduated half a year early and had a great vacation for a couple of weeks thanks to my parents but otherwise didn't do too much. I think it was better than high school. HTH

This is horrible advice. High-school dropouts who leave school at 16 or 17 because they think it's a waste of time rarely end up ahead of anyone, and certainly not by "managing their money right", whatever that means. You scorn a minimum-wage job at Wal-Mart, but where do you realistically expect someone without even a high-school diploma to get a great job? And how would he explain the fact that he had done really well in high school and challenged himself, then decided to quit so close to the finish line? I can't believe I'm even bothering to respond to this drivel.

And you bothered to leave a comment, so you apparently threw in the barb about not caring just to be an asshole. Classy.

the fact that you wrote this on the internet says something about you. There are several ways to interpret it, and none of them are good.

On the other hand, there's only one way for me to interpret your comment: you're an ignorant troll.

"where do you realistically expect someone without even a high-school diploma to get a great job?"

Netscape. ;-)

The world is different now. Things rarely work that way anymore. Also, if he were as good of a programmer as jwz he certainly wouldn't be asking for advice.

As someone who hated high school in high school, and never went to college, my advice is: stay for senior year.

Yes I thought hs was a waste of time. I think talking to "normal" people is a waste of time. I didn't go to college because I thought it was for normal tool-idiots that accept this spoon-fed idea of universal "success".

Yes, I had a lot of angst in those days! Now on to the point.

High school is not about learning academics. It's about growing up in a social environment. Enjoy senior activities. Enjoy hanging out with your friends, enjoy your prom. Yes, all of those things are over-rated. But its just a part of growing up and you can never go back.

It's funny, we all like to think we can learn from other peoples experiences, and we can, but certain things, you just have to go through. It can't be explained in a way that anyone can truly understand.

Growing up is one of those things. No matter what I or anyone else tells you, you will not truly understand until you just go through it.

But I'll tell you anyway. High school is fun because its high school. You get to be a dumb kid and complain all day about how you want to be free. But that's cool because you get to do it with a bunch of peers that are dumb and want to be free too. You get to love a girl, and then get your heartbroken all in the same week. And as much and as hard as you believe that you are not a dumb kid, well, you are. No offense intended, but you will agree with me when you are older.

College is pretty much the same. Though you actually do get your pseudo-freedom. Above all "college is what you make of it". So even though it can be exactly the same as hs, it does not have to be. But right around your 3rd/4th year of college you'll realize just how much of a kid you still are. Neither good nor bad, just ...much more growing up to be done.

Then when you get out of college, you realize everything you've done means nothing, adult life sucks and then you crash and then hopefully you reach a level of humility.

With humility comes patience and understanding.

It is after this point that you realize as much as you thought high school sucked ass, it didn't, it was fun. You realize as much as you hated (or liked college) it really didn't matter, because it was necessary to help you get to where you are now:

humble

patient

appreciative

understanding.

So slow down. That's the best advice I would give my teenage self. And hell, I probably would never listen either. But there is such happiness and beauty in slowing down. I am going to cry now.

Appreciate things as they come, be happy, and enjoy your life.

Oh yeah, and as for girls, they are the key to happiness. But boy does it take a lot of work to get to that level of happiness.

Good luck!

Go out with your gf. If you don't have one, put down the keyboard, and go get one.

F productivity.

In total agreement here.

I had the option to graduate HS a year early, but instead took courses at a local college, and used that to get into a better university.

I decided to graduate a year early from college, but not for the education reasons. I had grown a lot in the 3 years in college, and I felt I had gained all of the social skills I could from the school, and it was time to move on to the next social challenge: real life. Saving $50k also helped make the decision easier, but it was the social part that was the main deciding factor...I just felt ready to move on with my life.

I kind of disagree with "F productivity." One thing is to enjoy your life, and another is to piss it away.

Was meant to lighten the mood. I also said: "i am going to go cry now". I did not really do that. =D

But to be clear, yes, I agree, I am trying to make things that outlast my physical presence here on earth as well.

"Oh yeah, and as for girls, they are the key to happiness."

Truth. I wish my lame high school self knew and appreciated this. No material accomplishment, no piece of code, no award nor certificate has ever made me even half as happy as a sublime moment with a girl.

Or a guy. Whatever floats your boat.

Given that you're probably not long out of high school, I'll cut you some slack. You look like you could use some.

The major problem with your argument is that you're telling someone that they can't learn from someone else. Then you go off and spout some pop-psy graphorrhea at her/him. Looking through your past posts, I can see that you're a fan of self-help books. That's fine. Don't push it on someone who's facing the prospect of 2 years she/he wouldn't have to otherwise waste.

The points you bring up:

Socialization: Sounds like you could use some with how much you're emphasizing romance there. Socializing is important, but unless our young poster has been living under a rock, the chances that he's had some experience making friends is pretty good. Let romance come later. Even autism finds a way to continue itself biologically. If she/he doesn't want to have sex, what's the point in making her/him feel awkward?

College: What if our poster wants to travel? Oops, that broke your model of using university as a self-realization tool.

Maturity: Is not a function of writing output on the internet. Seems like at least one of us could learn that lesson. Also, it's not a function of how many things a person has done that you consider worthy. The OP might be at the furthest possible point from your definition from a kid. We don't know. Next time you're sitting alone with your finger up your nose, think about that for a second.

As for all that pseudo-religious stuff you spouted, close your self-help book and live a little. Don't worry. Buddha/Jesus/Yaweh/David Koresh will forgive you. I promise.

Seriously, y'all, circling the drain isn't cool. The only thing that helps you is you.

"As for all that pseudo-religious stuff you spouted, close your self-help book and live a little. Don't worry. Buddha/Jesus/Yaweh/David Koresh will forgive you. I promise."

This isn't Digg or reddit. I would expect a little more tolerance of diversity in these parts.

FYI, I'm an atheist, but the militant "you are dumb 'cos you believe in spirituality" mob pisses me off.

I'll reply once and only once.

Mainly, you are taking my post way too seriously. Your counter points are all based on what I literally wrote.

Socialization: Never said anything about having sex or forcing the issue with girls. I said get a gf for the sake of experiencing getting a gf. So what? Obviously he does not have to if he does not want to. Taken too seriously.

College: I specifically said I did not go to college, so I don't know what model of mine you are referring to.

Maturity: Never said anything about the internet. Yes I know you intended to be witty. Never said anything about doing anything. My take on maturity is simple: You have to mature to be mature. Actually I think we are in agreement there, though I don't know why you assume we are not. Skipping a grade, nor does any other one action entail maturity. My advice is simply to enjoy the experience and slow down.

On self-help. Agreed. I speak of self-help books because I've read them. There is a time for learning and a time for doing. Currently I very rarely read anything any more. All the books say the same thing, and I have learned not to search for answers, but rather simply to learn from tests. Learn and grow, learn and grow.

I hope i have clarified everything for everyone else reading. I am not really religious, but I like buddhism. Finally, my post wasn't a thesis!

Have fun.

"Taken too seriously" whiffs of "I'm too good to eat my own dogfood." And yes, literal does mean written. And your writing was a statement backed by arguments, fulfilling necessary and sufficient conditions to be considered a thesis. Pedantry aside, I've got a beef here.

You seem like you want to be nice, and like PieSquared wants to listen. There's a definite problem here, though: I don't like Landmark indoctrinators, and a lot of your phraseology comes from that direction, so my hackles were raised instantly. It might come from having had one as a roommate, so if you're just chattering happily away, my apologies. Landmark is scary enough so that when I see them get around another person, I have an immediate negative response.

Addressing what you've currently said, slowing down (http://www.slowmovement.com, am I right?) is irrelevant, because it still means there's a checklist. School, career, car, wife, house, kids, vacation, retirement, cancer, grandkids, dead, buried, gone. Yes, we'll always be dirt in the end. No, we don't have to march to oblivion. Some of us can subvert this as authentic freethinking entrepreneurs. Not all, but some.

Here is a problem with the idea that you should stay in high school in order to learn how to socialize: How many geeks who finished high school learned how to socialize?

Learning happens when you are ready and interested. The fact that you are in the middle of a fierce competition for popularity and girls does not mean that you're going to learn a thing about it.

Note to the O.P.

My post seemed to have implied that the main reason you should stay is social. I think that is mostly true, but I did not intend it to be in the sense of "learning social skills with your peers". I kind of don't know how to explain it.

What I mean is you are at a point in your life when people are in high school. So you should be in high school and enjoy it. The whole social aspect is simply because high school is social. If you are not the social type, hey no one is saying that is a sin. All I'm saying is, in some ways, are lives are longer then we think (even if it never seems like it) so we ought to just appreciate where we are now. The thing is I was so much like you. SO EAGER. And now when I look back, I realize that was a mistake.

So I think my advice is not so much "stay in school because its socially good", but how about "stay in school because there is no rush". In other words, no need to be so eager! The whole hangup on the social aspect is very simply because I believe a large part of Happiness is derived from social experiences. Trust me, I'm not a social kind of guy, I do not have a facebook. But it is in that, that i am able to appreciate the value of humans as innately social beings.

You will accomplish all that you want, if you want it and keep at it.

Best of luck to you man. Stay in touch here at HN and we'll see how it works out!

While I see that you got a few people slightly irked, I really appreciate your input and time.

I think I understand what you're saying. However, my question is such: Can't you just switch out your senior year of high school for a year of college? Stay in college an extra year. If you were to do that, what would you be missing?

I do not think I'm rushing my life; I'm just trying to get the most that I can out of it. Is the social experience of college going to be that much different (worse? less educational?) than the social experience of high school?

Here's a different perspective: I'm in my second year of college and I'm having more fun than I've ever had in my life. I'm more social, more confident, more outgoing than I could ever have imagined myself to be when I was in HS (though, I confess, I'm still not as self-reliant as I would like to be; would someone like to give me a job? :p).

Both college and HS are what you make of them. My HS years were crappy because I was an idiot back then. I'm sure I'm still an idiot now, but at least I'm the right kind of idiot :)

Hear what HN has to say, but do what you think is right. What works for us might not work for you.

"Can't you just switch out your senior year of high school for a year of college?"

This isn't as simple as that. A specific example: you are in 3rd year. Everyone is 21 and hitting up bars. You are 20. Some places you cannot even step foot in.

Being social outside your age group is really difficult compared to being social within it, and basically until you graduate from college, your age group is "your year".

To bring it to your current circumstances - imagine a 10 year-old child prodigy trying to hang out with a bunch of 15 year-olds. Or a grade 9 trying to hang out with a bunch of grade 10's. You can do it, but it is highly suboptimal.

I disagree with this. I've had no trouble hanging out with people much older, and a few that were slightly younger. My friend network goes from 18 to about 26 without there being much of an issue. True, I can't generally get into bars (I'm 20), but there are plenty of other opportunities to get smashed outside of bars.

>> Can't you just switch out your senior year of high school for a year of college? Stay in college an extra year. If you were to do that, what would you be missing?

Literally, you would be missing your senior year of high school. You'll never be a senior in high school ever again.

The overwhelming majority of college students will tell you that college life is 100x better than hs life. It likely is. Mainly because there is no parental-supervision. Dorm life is potentially a meat-market leading to drunken "fun".

Regardless of what you consider fun, College is probably "socially" better than hs because of the increased diversity, freedom, and sheer population density.

So no, in those aspects you would not be missing out on anything.

My advice stems from the fact that you will only ever be a senior in high school once. Some here feel I am encouraging you to take the "standardized" path, which is highly ironic because I'm the only one from my peer group to have never taken the standard path. Never went to college, never had a full time job, paid my own way for most everything (not to imply I don't have very loving parents) and i am obsessed with building my own startup (single founder) having only learned programming seriously since last October.

There are costs and benefits to everything. So to answer your question, no socially you will not be missing out on anything terribly crucial. And college life is arguably 100x better than hs life, just remember that it is not really apples to apples. When I was your age I would have chosen to skip senior year. But as I sit here now, my advice is to stay. You must have a set of friends whom you wouldn't mind screwing around with for one more year?

I agree we are all different. If you feel you are obsessively focused and driven, then you SHOULD skip because to do anything else would go against your self: not good.

When all is said and done you have to BELIEVE in the choice you make. I chose not to go to college because at the time, I did not believe in it. If I forced myself to go, I honestly do not believe it would have yielded anything significant. Not because college is bad, but because I did not believe in it at that time. So if you believe that college will benefit you so much more, it probably will! Just remember you do not have the luxury of going backwards.

Let us know what you decide!

edit: read potatolicious sibling post. A great point!!

I don't know how it is for the average, but from my perspective, the social experience in college is notably different from the social experience in hs. In hs, I moved from one social group to another while generally being a loner in between. I didn't have a tight network of friends that lasted for a considerable amount of time. The people I'm close to now that happened to go to hs with me, for the most part, were not the people that I was close to in hs. The people I was actually close to in hs have mostly drifted away.

That might not sound like a positive thing, but it taught me to be more accepting of different types of people. I found my way into networks of jocks, band kids, geeks, nerds, etc. so that now, I don't really discriminate against people. If I had've skipped that whole part of growing up, my network now, which is fairly static, would be nowhere near as diverse or exciting as it would've been otherwise.

As for the girls thing, I found it a whole lot easier to get a girlfriend in hs. For some people, this is different, but I think the whole concept of "dating" suffers a paradigm shift when you leave hs. I don't generally see people go from "in love" to "heartbroken" in the course of a week, but that wasn't an uncommon experience when I was in hs. Like social networks, dating seems to solidify once you get into college. A relationship that lasts a few months is short, whereas in hs, that probably would've been a big deal.

I also believe that last year in hs really sticks home the concept of leaving that whole experience behind you. I know some people that left hs early, that are generally mature for their age, but they still seem stuck in that hs mode. It's as if there was no closure, and they're still hanging on to that last little bit of irresponsibility that makes the (relatively) more adult relationships in college a little more difficult to attain.

I don't know that any of that makes high school or college better or worse, educationally speaking, for your social development, but, at the very least, if you have no reason to leave hs early besides the typical teenage disdain for it, then just stay. You'll make a few more memories, perhaps grow up a little more. Take a bunch of mickey mouse courses. I had two outs, guitar, a courtesy, and my last two required classes (English 4 and Gov't/Economics). I skated through it all, doing very, very little work. It made it possible for me to sort of break out of my shell and get to know a few more people.

I wanted to reply to this post but then I read yours and you nailed it more beautifully then I ever could.

Specifically:

"Appreciate things as they come, be happy, and enjoy your life."

"Go out with your gf. If you don't have one, put down the keyboard, and go get one."

and most imporatantly.

"F productivity."

One thing I would add is try to appreciate more the "normal" people, for whatever they are. Cherish the time you get to hang around them. They are one of the most important part of your life. Love them and respect them for they give a lot of meaning to your life.

Sometimes it's helpful to think in contrapositive: would it be more regrettable to miss that year of high school, or to miss other opportunities that time could afford you?

I, in fact, skipped all four years of high school, and opted to go to community college instead. I collected college credit until I was 18, went to a university, and finished in 4 terms. I'm much further along now than I would have been otherwise, and haven't regretted the decision once.

You could always attend community college for a year before going to college. You'll save money, have a lot of course work behind you before transferring, and get to meet new people at the college. If you're in California, you'll have a much better shot at getting in to a UC as well.

I wouldn't. Take more AP classes now, and then in three years decide whether you want to graduate college early. Either way you save a year, but in college you'll be older and able to make better decisions. You need to give yourself time to grow. :-)

If your school doesn't have any more AP classes, study for the tests yourself. You seem like you're smart enough. I knocked off a year and a half of college through APs. Two of my friends did the same. One is graduating a year early and taking a full time job in California, one is getting a masters in four years, and I'm getting a second degree in four years. Having an extra year in college means a lot more than having an extra year in HS.

In addition to doing the AP tests next year, see if you can work with a professor at a local college once or twice a week. They'll write you a pretty powerful recommendation for college and you'll get some nice experience to boot.

Stay in school for Senior Year... AND SLEEP WITH AS MANY WOMAN AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. Sorry, had to say that.

My real answer however, is to skip Senior Year. You have the option that a lot of students don't. High School has it's perks, but I think you'll find the college atmosphere a lot more... how do I say... comfortable.

College isn't (mostly) a "scene" as High School often is. You'll meet people from around the world, and from different walks of life. The students are, well, older and maybe a bit more mature / less judge-mental.

Regardless, you're in a great position, and it sounds like you'll be doing well with either choice. Most importantly, have fun and enjoy those years!!

Well, to everyone, thanks for all the responses. I really appreciate.

What I've decided is that I'm going to take the safest road I can. I have the option to apply to colleges, then wait for a response, and afterwards decide whether or not I want to graduate (or drop out). If I am satisfied with colleges' responses, I will most likely end high school after this year; otherwise, I will stay for another year.

As someone said in the comments, the truth is that in my situation, it will be good no matter what I decide. There is no use brooding about it for too long.

Again, thank you to everyone who responded. Hacker News is a great community for things like this.

As many have said, he socialization of high school is worth it. I'd even go as far to say that what you would gain by moving everything forwards a year would be less that what you'd gain by having a more "normal" college experience by coming in at the right age, but I have no numbers for that.

If you're bored, start contributing to Open Source stuff (maybe turn it into an Independent Study course), do a start-up (look at Mark Bao to see that it's possible), and study a bit so that you can destroy your SATs. You may as well take a few more APs too - figure out which ones will transfer well to you college (as I left HS with six APs, but only got college credit for two of them since they most were in random things like European History) and do them; things like Computer Science AB, Physics C, Calculus BC, and Chemistry should let you bypass almost all of your standard freshman science courses, and will be much easier than their corresponding "real" college versions.

If you really feel like you need some knowledge, follow along with an MIT OCW course (and if you're really ambitious, find a teacher who will let you do an Independent Study on it) or an evening one at your local community college.

I'd also suggest finding an interesting teacher to hang out with and establish as a mentor. In my junior year I took Comp Sci A, as taught by the school's director of IT. He knew I would get a five in a heartbeat (and I did), so he suggested some other projects which were pretty cool. The following year I couldn't take BC based on the schedule, but I would drop into his office every other week or so to hang out, talk about what stuff I'd been working on independently. More often than not we'd start digging into some code and two hours would have passed before I'd leave, at which point I'd go back to whatever class I was supposed to be in (armed with a good excuse note). As a rsult of this I polished my skills, got access to a whole lot of the school, and got some really good advice about how to succeed in the business. I still talk to that teacher, ten years later.

Most important, thought, is enjoy yourself. Hang out with your friends, pick up some hobbies, hook up in the park, steal your parents' booze, make fixable mistakes. You will never be a kid again, and the marginal value of one more year of "real life" isn't much.

> ...things like Computer Science AB...

Um... AP CS AB was cut and won't be offered 09-10....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04...

I'm not going to give you any one advice on what to do, as I think any advice someone can give you will always be biased. Those that feel they did not enjoy their life too much will say "stay in school, enjoy life". Those that probably enjoyed life too much will say "be smart, skip senior year."

That being said, I started college at the age of 16, and skipped my senior year in high school. So, based on my experience, here's what you can expect:

  - Not having a prom night
  - Not going to a senior trip
  - When all your friends in college are > 21 years old, it will be awkward dating chicks and not being able to buy them drinks or taking them out to a club, and you will probably not have a good time trying to sneak into clubs every time your friends want to go out clubbing.  (This can be solved with a fake ID of course, if you can get your hands on one.)
  - You will always be the youngest guy around you.  If you get a normal day job this will suck because everyone will always have more experience than you, and have a stronger voice/opinion than you.  This might not be a problem in a startup with young guys.

Here is some advice though, if you do choose to skip your senior high school year:

  - Try not to get a day job too soon in your life.  Once you do, it is *very* hard to quit.  (I still haven't been able to 5 years later.)  Stay with your parents and work on a startup instead.
  - Study abroad if you can.  Learn a foreign language, live another culture.
  - You may eventually find that you compare yourself to guys older than you, and get frustrated for one reason or another.  Never forget they are 5-10 years older than you and by the time you're their age, you will have accomplished much more than they have.
  - Do not drink as much as your friends do.  They have been drinking much longer than you have, so don try to catch up with them.
  - Do not fall in love with girls 5+ years older than you.  You do not want your heart broken when they tell you they need to move on because their biological clock is ticking, nor do you want them to pressure you to marry them.  However:
  - Get married young.  Realize you will have a college degree by the age of 20-21.  No need to wait till you're 30 to get married or have kids like people usually say nowadays.  You will mature faster and start a family younger, and you will be that young, cool dad one day.

As a high school senior, I'm jealous of your opportunity (though no doubt you earned it.) I would probably leap at the opportunity to skip this year. I share your opinion on wasted time, but more with classes I don't feel that I need than with other students who hold me back.

Part of my distress is my graduating class of 46 people. I don't have peers, and it pisses me off sometimes. But that may not be the case for you. If I had a group of like-minded, intelligent, and ambitious people to hang out with, I would probably be looking forward to this year.

And surely there's something to be said for learning how to do things before you're expected to do them right... I think, in my case, that's especially true of relationships. I need this year for social development, even if my intellectual development will suffer a little.

You, however, would appear to be more motivated than I am. If you can seek out a college course load in high school, in whatever area you're interested in (that is, without too many fluff courses), then gaining the extra year of social development would likely be beneficial in the long run -- no downside.

Putting myself in your situation, I would want to skip the year. What I should do, however, is NOT skip the year. (I had a similar debate about skipping 2nd grade, except that I didn't really know how to weigh the possibilities back then. (I didn't go for it.))

As tsally suggested, I would definitely try and find a college professor to work with. Do research in your field of choice. It's more interesting than lit homework, neh?

So I'm not really sure why I would be qualified to give you advice. Feel free to ignore. =)

Before the 20th century, with all its mass-scale standardizations, going to college when you were 14 or so was not so unusual, at least for people who liked academic subjects. The college curriculum is best absorbed when you have nothing else competing for your attention, like paying the rent and worrying about career.

You can get a Lord of the Flies education in human social life in high school. However, suffering through that did not teach me anything except to hate ordinary people. If you're not interested and ready to learn how to play popularity contests, being in a school for playing them might not teach you much, either.

Whether you graduate high school or not, whether you go to college or not, whatever you do, as long as you retain your physical health, you can easily start all over again at 25 or 30 (multiple times, even). You can even start again at later ages, though with less social support (and perhaps more freedom). The statistics-wielding scolders are telling you scare stories that don't apply to you.

Going straight to college from junior high school is an interesting move. http://www.43things.com/entries/view/2869199

Unless you're having a rough time of it in high school, I'd advise you to enjoy your teenage years and the leverage afforded to you by virtue of being considered young and precocious.

Precisely what advantages are you hoping to gain from skipping your senior year in high school? "More learning" and "less crap to deal with" aren't advantages; they're common signs of teenage angst in smart high school kids.

Maybe I misformulated a bit? Perhaps.

I'm not having a rough time in high school. You might even say I borderline enjoy it at times. However, I also recognize that a lot of my time is wasted, and that some things and policies are just silly.

What I meant by 'less crap to deal with' wasn't angsty. I meant two things: First of all, many teachers teach as babysitters, not as teachers; second of all, many students act as rowdy, uninterested kids, making class essentially pointless. That's what I meant - not any teenage angst. (Well, maybe, maybe just a teeny bit :P)

Among other things I find important is transportation. I take 1.5 hours on a bus every day to get to and from school.

Thanks for the response, by the way.

>>a lot of my time is wasted

Your time is only wasted if you allow it to be. If they are really doing the babysitting thing then quietly doing your own thing ought to be possible. Especially if you are good enough to keep up with class while doing it. I used to work nights in HS, slept through classes and would be periodically woken up to answer questions get them right and go back to sleep.

You can definitely make the best of it, but there still is a BIG difference between being forced to stay in a building for the bulk of your day, and being able to choose what to do with your time.

Good points, and good reasons to graduate early.

I think the short answer is, "It depends."

Personally, I learned a lot in high school, but I learned more faster in college, and that had more to do with the college environment than it did with me being more mature. I thought about attempting to graduate early, but it could come with some big drawbacks.

The first question is when do you turn 18, and do you plan on living at home while going to school?

Trying to move out before you are 18, even to a school dorm, creates complications that simply vanish when you are 18. (For instance, you generally can't enter into any legal contracts at all until you are 18).

So if your plan is to live at home (at least initially) then graduating early might make sense, but if you want or need to move out to go to college, then I would wait.

Next is how is your savings. Do you and or your parents need that extra year to save before you start college? I did and then I worked thoughout all of my college to keep my debt low.

And then, to echo so many other posters, how is your social situation? I personally consider this the lowest point on the list, but you really don't get many chances at senior prom or some of the other unique social events.

Thanks for the response.

My social situation. Hmm. In the past year, I've gained social skills, so I have a lot of friends - however, I have no problem maintaining contacts or gaining new friends. I feel that while my current friends are very important to me, I could make new friends easily (while keeping in touch with high school friends as well).

I think that my parents do not need the extra year to save for college.

I'm interested more in your point about being over 18. I'd be 17 for the first year of college - but where would that limit me? Where are binding contracts necessary? What complications are there?

Thanks.

Necessary? They aren't to get through college, there have been cases (albiet rare) of people entirely graduating before ever turning 18. There are certainly ways of dealing with it.

It does however create a great many inconveniences that simply vanish the day you turn 18. For instance, if your finances are such that you need a job (as mine were), there are many employers that will not even consider someone below 18. In most places you cannot own a car. Few landlords will let you take out a lease in your name. Most places will not extend you credit without a cosigner.

All of this can be overcome, and if you are planning on staying at home with your parents at least initially then dealing with it is quite easy. But if you are planning to move out, it is still a series of challenges/inconveniences that simply vanish the day you turn 18.

My personal experience / opinion:

High school was boring as hell. I didn't graduate early, but the last year really started to feel a bit like torture - I was ecstatic to finally be done. University was infinitely more enjoyable, and felt like it ended too quickly.

However, some of the strongest bonds I have were made during high school. Relationship-wise, in retrospect, high school was depth, while university was breadth.

Not rushing high school also allowed me to do well enough to attend university for free, without ever having to worry about my workload during high school.

Overall, I guess it didn't hurt me to graduate HS on time.

Now for the advice part: if you want to save one year so you can graduate from university faster, don't bother. Life is short, but youth is the best part anyway... a rush towards some nebulous idea of adulthood is pointless, it'll come sooner than you want anyway. If you want to use the extra year to explore more courses in university, or to use it towards a graduate degree, or even to travel for a year - that might be worth it.

It worked very well for me ultimately (honestly I don't know where I'd be if I struggled through highschool), but comes with a word of caution. http://daniellefong.com/2008/05/15/advice-to-the-bright-and-...

Look into studying abroad, taking community college classes, and the possible repercussions of graduating early.

What are the possible repercussions of graduating early? That's really what I'm interested in most.

(1) Are you planning on going to university? a) most top (u.s.) universities look down upon graduating early. They'd prefer to see you really use up all your resources in your area and say, win siemens, start a non-profit, become a lobbyist, start a start-up than graduate early. b) can you get into a (good) university right now?

(2) Finances. Do you currently rely on your parents' finances? Upon graduating high school, will this change? Would you have to pay for university yourself?

(3) Are you mature enough to be doin' what 18 year olds do when you're 17? I assume you're a dude (most folks here are), and dudes mature slower than girls do. There's a big difference between 17 and 18 (although not really a big difference between 22 and 23, or 40 and 41...)

(4) (small one) Having to explain to all your peers for the next 5 years that yes, you are younger than them and why. Not being able to drink in public legally for a year longer than all your friends.

Honestly, I don't know where you live, but I'd look into Other Enrichment opportunities before graduating early. I went to a state-run public boarding school for science and math in my junior year that was more like college than some colleges are. Can you just take less classes senior year and work on a start-up? (I presume you're interested in those 'cause you're here...) Are there good universities (or bad ones) in the area that you could take classes at?

All of those seem like much better options than graduating early and "starting life" earlier. "Starting life" always seems just around the corner when you finish yet another milestone, but I'm slowly becoming more aware of the fact that life starts now (not to get too philosophical).

> "Starting life" always seems just around the corner when you finish yet another milestone, but I'm slowly becoming more aware of the fact that life starts now (not to get too philosophical).

That's my main inspiration for trying this. Why waste time in high school?

Anyway, thanks for the response and the pointers as for what to consider. 1) is really the major one, as well as 2).

(I think I'm mature enough? Well, then again, who would say they weren't? And I do not drink, and do not plan to start.)

Thanks :)

Hmm...I might not have made my point clear:

I think it's a mistake to view 'starting life' as when you're finished with a milestone (i.e. high school). One should instead think of 'starting life' or, life, as now, regardless of the contextual situation (in high school, in college, not yet married, not yet a successful start-up founder, etc.)

Select several of the people who know you best who are in their 40s or older (parents included). Ask them what they recommend you do with your life and why. Your analysis of that advice is probably about the best guidance you can get. My only direct advice is to at some point soon get a job for a while in a field you're interested in (summer, part time, something). The contacts and perspective will probably be valuable.

My anecdotal experience: When I had the choice to speed things up I took it and it's worked out well for me. I did lose touch with a lot of friends. On the other hand some of the friends I made at 18 and 19 after I started working are still my best friends and I attribute that largely to those associations being by choice rather than by circumstance.

The key is figuring out what gets you the best chance of getting into the universities you want to go to. If you get rejected, you could always try again next year!

I don't know how many additional APs are available to you, but I was able to score 30 credits (1 year) max, based on university regulations. Those 30 credits were cheap. You might want to look into the policies of the universities you are considering and see if there's a point in taking any more.

The third way is to see if you can get leave to spend half of your day senior year attending classes at a local university (if there is one).

Anyway, you're in much better shape than I was at that point in time. Keep working hard.

I was in your exact same boat, though I stopped just shy of multivariate calculus in High School, and after the first 2 calc classes, took statistics and whatnot.

Anyway, I would suggest staying in high school and enjoying it. I ended up only going to school for half the day my senior year along with a buddy who was in a similar situation. Then a few days a week, we'd attend a college class in town. The other days, we'd go to the beach, or really anywhere and just relax. Those are days we'll never get back, but it's ok, because I think we spent them properly the first time around :-)

College will still be there in a year.

I graduated high school at the age of 16, turned 17 in January and started university in February (Australian). I missed all my friends who stayed for the extra year. I took a placement between my second and third year and have continued to work for the company. I'm now 20, studying part time for my final year and have been seeing someone for over a year now.

BUT the moral of the story is this: I'm 20. I feel about 40. Even if you graduate early, go travel for a year. Bum around. Spend some YOU time and get the most out of life. I sure as hell didn't.

I'm about to start senior year and really wishing I could either go work programming or, failing that, go to college.

It sounds like academically, there's no reason you couldn't graduate early. My friend just did that. He was in my grade junior year, was taking 5 APs + calc 3 and ODE (after having taken 3 APs the year before and 1 the year before that. he basically had done all of the APs my school offered that weren't really easy (like APES)).

He didn't try to graduate early, but he applied to Stanford and MIT as a junior. (I think he got some approval from the school saying "this guy is ready for college".) He got wait-listed to MIT, but he got into Stanford. They gave him financial aid and everything.

Now he's about to head off to Stanford, and he thinks he's getting a HS diploma in a year.

But it's a complicated equation. It depends on a lot of things. The variables include:

* Friends. If you have really good friends that you really like, you may not want to leave them yet, and that's fine. * The exact alternative. If you can get a lot of cool stuff done while also being in HS (I had a coding job this summer that I'll do some this year, time permitting, and I'm about to launch what may become a startup), there's less reason to need to leave. * Exactly how much you hate/are tired of HS. I'm really tired of the bullshit, the pseudo-learning (memorizing just for a test and the like), etc. * Where you want to go to college. You may be a stronger applicant if you wait a year (though maybe not). If there's a school in your state that's strong in what you want to do, and you just want to go there, it doesn't really matter. But if the plan is going to Stanford/MIT/Ivy, you need to be a ridiculously candidate for it to even be likely. No one's a shoe-in. Then again, graduating early might make you stronger too. I'd do some research as to which colleges would prefer usually.

And there's tons more. If there's a strong reason driving you to leave, you can definitely pull it off.

The best option may be to try to do what my friend did, if you can. Then you get 2 shots at those elite schools. But you should probably be sure that you'll go to college if you get in. I'm sure they wouldn't be happy if you turned them down, and then they got another application from you a year later.

If graduating early means a worse plan afterward (say, community college instead of a good school), I would stay. Otherwise, graduate early and go to college or take a year off. Life is too short to waste in high school.

I graduated college a year early from college and wish I had graduated high school early instead. Maybe another way to view it is: if you knew you were going to die in seven years, would you rather spend four years in high school and three in college or the other way around?

Another possibility is to not graduate at all, and go to a school that accepts students who have not graduated from high school. I did this, and went to Simon's Rock College. It's not a super prestigious school, but there are a lot of students who are in the same situation as you. A majority of students transfer out after their second year when they get their AA and go to a more traditional college.

I got my BA there and am now getting my PhD at a top 3 school in my field

Spend the extra year doing detailed searches for (and interviewing with) potential faculty advisors at top undergraduate institutions.

Odds are, you'll land a great undergrad research opportunity that will pull you away from the monotony of academic undergrad life. Further, take those AP classes and more importantly, take the exams! The top scores (that you'll hopefully earn) will allow you to opt out of the overcrowded and over-simplistic "basic" university courses.

I don't think you should leave early. Think of it this way, you'll be in the "real world" from approximately age 25 through the rest of your life, getting there one year sooner doesn't really do anything for you, and in the big picture senior year of high school is a really unique time in your life. Enjoy it.

Having an extra year of time relative to your age group might help you decide to get an advanced degree after college, and you never know what that can lead to. For example, I was committed to getting a master's degree after I graduated college a year early because of the perception of "free" time. That has led to my current career path as a security researcher, which wasn't a serious possibility before I started grad school.

If you think you'll waste it, yeah finish early.

But I think what a lot of folks here are saying is it doesn't have to be a waste.

As someone who was in your position in high school, I completely slacked off in señor yr and it was def the most memorable year.

I had this same option, graduated a term early, did a 50 day Outward Bound course (highly recommended) and then came back for Prom, etc.

Went to college the next year, relaxed and with some great lessons on my hands.

Do it. Go travel for a year. Then when you go to college you'll have a lot more life experience and self confidence that any classes would have given you.

If you enjoy high school for reasons besides just learning, ie: socializing, clubs, or sports you should probably stay the extra year.

Stay a 'child' while you can.

Good advice. Also, you can stay a 'child' as long as you like, even in college.

Next year will mark my 25th year out of high school. My college career included two different times through my alma mater. The first time I supported my endeavors by working in the dorms, which included helping freshman adjust to college life while the second time I was the non-traditional student who had worked in industry for a wee bit.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have graduated high school as early as possible since it did very little to prepare me for the real world. There were a couple of teachers who had an influence on me but overall there was a lack of intellectual challenge and I don't know that learning social skills from immature peers is all that healthy. I did have fun taking vocational courses as they had some application to the real world and have helped me to this day in my professional field.

My first time through college, I spent lots of time with graduate students and professors. This was very beneficial and even helped socially. The second time through I found the undergrads were more social and rarely did the grads and profs interact with the undergrads. Two different departments/colleges at a university and a world of difference between a non-technical department and a technical department.

My recommendation is to graduate early if you think you can do it. Pursue as much research, or start ups, as an undergraduate as you can. If at all possible do study abroad while in college, as there is much you can learn from living in a different culture.

Take part in student government, clubs and sports as time allows but learn to say 'no' to too much involvement. If you have problems getting dates read Doc Love (use google) as he provides a framework that can help you and college has many more opportunities for dating than the 'real' world, e.g. my workplace is 80% male and the women are all married.

The biggest difference between college and high school. In high school, they still treat you as a kid and guide you to success. In college, it is up to you to accomplish your goals. If you do not have the self-discipline or motivation, then you will fail in college.

Due to my parents' divorce, I was pretty much on my own for junior high and high school other than laundry. The only difference between high school and college for me, was that living in the dorms I was guaranteed three meals a day rather than having to cook my own food as I did in high school and I had to do my own laundry.

Two of my high school classmates had a rough transition to university life. One ended up joining the Navy and to my knowledge has not completed college. The other finally finished, took the only job offered but is now VP of a firm. I was able to finish the course work in my first major in 2.5 years and added a second major.

In essence, whether you succeed, regardless of when you start, in college is up to you. If you want to do it and are focused then you can. But if you rely on external discipline then you will have a tough time of university.

It is time to learn how to make your own decisions.

At 16 years old? I don't think so. Asking for advice is absolutely the right thing to do.

I'm trying to compromise by asking for as much information and advice as I can and being as well-informed as possible, then making a decision, and making sure that the people I respect and trust don't disagree. :)

Getting advice is part of the skill of making decisions.

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