Destroyer.io
destroyer.io
destroyer.io
If they can't be arsed to spell-check "HIPAA", I'm not entirely convinced that I should be trusting them to maintain HIPAA compliance if I decide to send them drives that potentially contain patient data.
That is, unless they're instead shouting about complying with sand crabs, though I'm still concerned in either case.
> The easiest way to destroy your hard drive.
You mean other than nuking it with DBAN or shred and then taking a hammer to it and/or burning it in a fire?
> Same methods, machines and processes used by banks and recommended by the NSA
Yeah, because banks and the NSA are obviously bastions of trustworthiness. </sarcasm>
> Place the sealed box in any UPS dropbox or schedule a free pick-up.
This seems to be a rather significant point of potential failure. While I certainly like UPS better than the USPS (or - God forbid - FedEx), I'm not inclined to go with this approach rather than take drives to a local data destruction facility and/or destroy them myself.
If you're going to send me a box, it had damn well better be one with a good locking mechanism and some measure of tamper resistance and/or evidence. Even that's not surefire, but it's sure as hell better than "here's a cardboard box; trust us, it's secure enough".
The idea's cute and creative, but when it comes to things like EHRs and such that require absolute confidentiality and security to a degree that would make top-notch military agencies and veteran cryptonerds blush, neither "cute" nor "creative" are good selling points.
HIPPA typo:
Thanks for pointing out the typo, it has been fixed. We just opened up the site today, I expect to find a few extra mistakes and bugs that we'll have to fix.
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"Easiest way to destroy a drive":
DBAN is not physical destruction, which is what we do. We do it this way because it's the only way to guarantee that your data will disappear, forever.
Taking a hammer to the drive, disassembling it and burning it might do the trick. We're not here to serve hardcore DIYers, we're here to serve people that need a guaranteed, quick and inexpensive service that does it for them.
Like any other service business, there's a group of potential customers that will want to wash their own car, cook their own meal, paint their own nails, clean their own house, cut their own hair, etc. We believe that we're offering great value for the service being provided, at just $19 (and $10 for extra drives).
We also believe that paying $19, checking out in under 60 seconds, getting a box delivered to you, dropping the drive inside the box and then just dropping off the package at a drop box (or scheduling a pick up) is the easiest way to go about this.
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NSA wording:
When we say we use the same methods recommended by the NSA, we're trying to say that we use the same methods that the government uses to destroy their drives.
Having said that, I'm by now certain that the NSA wording will be changed. Just seeing those words makes people uncomfortable, and after a lot of feedback it seems that it's doing our company a disservice.
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Drop box:
This option is not for everyone, and we realize that. You can also schedule a free pickup or drop it off yourself at any of their facilities.
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Locking mechanism, etc.:
These are upgrades that we've though about. Some seem more possible than others, but we can definitely improve on the choices being offered (currently just one). Improvements across the board will be implemented as we grow and get more feedback, that's for sure.
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In conclusion, thanks for taking the time to detail your pain points. We shouldn't be leaving so many unanswered questions, our messaging should be clearer and leave nothing to doubt. I'll take all of your feedback, along with the rest that I've gotten today, and improve our message and service.
Let me know if there's anything else that I can answer for you. Cheers!
> DBAN is not physical destruction, which is what we do. We do it this way because it's the only way to guarantee that your data will disappear, forever.
Hence the second part of that comment. I mentioned DBAN (or any means of overwriting with randomness and/or zeroes) because it clears the data and further minimizes opportunities for recovery should a shard (or whole drive) escape before being destroyed. It's just like why your company degausses first; it's an extra level of protection and assurance that the data is gone forever.
> Taking a hammer to the drive, disassembling it and burning it might do the trick. We're not here to serve hardcore DIYers, we're here to serve people that need a guaranteed, quick and inexpensive service that does it for them.
Throwing drive platters in a fireplace sounds pretty guaranteed, quick, and inexpensive to me. Just costs firewood and a willingness to see pretty colors in your living room :)
> Having said that, I'm by now certain that the NSA wording will be changed. Just seeing those words makes people uncomfortable, and after a lot of feedback it seems that it's doing our company a disservice.
That's certainly a good idea.
If you want to reference a government agency that isn't notorious for doing whatever it can to circumvent data destruction as part of the reason it exists, might I recommend NIST, whose guidelines are the ones that the Department of Defense, HIPAA, etc. use for data retention/destruction requirements? While I'm not necessarily trusting of any government agency on a personal level, there are plenty of hospitals and other medical facilities that follow HIPAA, HITECH, etc. to the letter and will feel better that you're actually paying attention to the requirements HIPAA bases its own from.
> You can also schedule a free pickup or drop it off yourself at any of their facilities.
That solves the problem of the drop box, yes, but that wasn't what I was talking about. As much as I like UPS, it's not impossible for them to misplace a package during transit, for example, nor is it for a rogue UPS guy to snatch the hard drives during transit and sell them to identity thieves / business competitors / the NSA / etc. That's a huge problem when a drive contains ePHI or trade secrets or something else requiring absolute confidentiality.
The hospital I happen to work for right now (and whose data destruction policy I've had a hand in influencing by recommending our recent policy of wiping and destroying drives that may contain ePHI) handles the physical destruction through a local company which gives us a bunch of locked dropboxes (for hard drives and paper documents, both of which frequently contain PHI) and picks them up routinely and frequently, transporting everything themselves. While that degree of service might be out of your current capacity (I haven't the slightest idea what your expansion potential and/or willingness to buy some vans are), I do recommend allowing local businesses to drop off media at your facility directly (or otherwise providing a drop-off location that you control yourself) in order to avoid the potential hassles of damage control that would arise should their hard-drive-in-a-box disappear or be tampered with somewhere between their companies/homes and your own.
> In conclusion, thanks for taking the time to detail your pain points. We shouldn't be leaving so many unanswered questions, our messaging should be clearer and leave nothing to doubt. I'll take all of your feedback, along with the rest that I've gotten today, and improve our message and service.
Good to hear. I really do like the idea; it just needs these seemingly-little-snags (among others that other folks commented on) worked out, since such snags - no matter how seemingly minor - are often the difference between proper security and potential data leaks. Nice to know you're taking it all to heart and at least interested in making your service as rock-solid as it can possibly be.
> Already removed the NSA wording. It's amazing how many people it spooked.
> It's safe to say we're going to stay away from referencing other government agencies.
> I answered this in your other comment, on the other thread, but we're only using USPS.
> Offering some sort of en-route layer to our product seems likely. There will always be a weakest link when it comes to data security (proving your social for some, your data being stored in the cloud for others, etc.) and the fact that you're shipping the drive to us is ours. We'll work on making this as much as a non-issue as the business model allows.
> The service that your hospital has is exactly what big corporations can afford. We're filling a gap for companies that are not there yet.
Shoot me an email at alex@destroyer.io with your address and I'll send a Destroyer.io sticker your way (if you trust me with your address :). The feedback here has been great, and the goal is to offer a service that makes everyone feel safe, this thread definitely pushes us in that direction.
Much obliged.
> Offering some sort of en-route layer to our product seems likely. There will always be a weakest link when it comes to data security (proving your social for some, your data being stored in the cloud for others, etc.) and the fact that you're shipping the drive to us is ours. We'll work on making this as much as a non-issue as the business model allows.
Fair enough. Being aware of the potential security hazards involved is a vital first step for security assessment in any scenario, so it's good that you're open to that criticism and willing to investigate ways to alleviate it.
> The service that your hospital has is exactly what big corporations can afford. We're filling a gap for companies that are not there yet.
We're not really a big corporation, though. We're a little hospital in a mountain town with maybe 5,000 people in it, tops. We still shell out the big bucks for data security because we're well aware that it's cheap compared to a HIPAA breach.
> Shoot me an email at alex@destroyer.io with your address and I'll send a Destroyer.io sticker your way (if you trust me with your address :). The feedback here has been great, and the goal is to offer a service that makes everyone feel safe, this thread definitely pushes us in that direction.
Done. :)
Yes, that's a great idea, and it's the next step. We plan on having a live video feed of our facility. We also want to record how each order is destroyed, and show the drive owner see how we destroyed their drive.
The site was just opened up today. As we grow and get feedback, we'll adapt and add more features to our service.
We don't expect this to be a problem. The interceptor would be breaking several laws. Even if you aside that breaking the law is not a problem for them, there are far easier and less expensive ways to access your data. Like accessing it through your internet connection or breaking into your house.
Either way, all of your guys' concerns are valid, and I understand your point of view. We'll grow and improve our messaging + service as time goes by, that's for sure.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. Cheers!
The interceptor is already breaking a whole bunch of laws regardless. I don't think "oh no, intercepting this hard drive would be illegal! I should find another way to steal this person's data and illegally use it for my own personal gain." is going to even be an afterthought to such an entity, let alone a dealbreaker.
> Even if you aside that breaking the law is not a problem for them, there are far easier and less expensive ways to access your data. Like accessing it through your internet connection or breaking into your house.
Unless your interceptor happens to be a disgruntled UPS employee who managed to score the route delivering the packages to your facility, in which case he/she has managed to land the easiest data theft opportunity ever.
Like I mentioned in my answer to your other comment, shipping is the weakest link (or biggest risk) of our company. We'll do our best to figure out ways to make customers comfortable with shipping their drives to us.
You can check out my answer to pjlegato's question above. I'm guessing it'll answer some of the questions you might have as well.
I can tell from this thread that we have to exude more trust. We know we're not for every customer, but we do want to make sure that the ones that are a right fit (small businesses and end consumers) feel comfortable with us.
If there's anything specific in our messaging or process that you'd like for us to point out or improve, let me know.
Thanks again, cheers!
I've answered your same questions a couple of times today, here's what I've been saying:
Great question. Naturally, most of the inquiries or concerns around this service are going to revolve around trust and security.
The obvious and straight forward answer is that we're not. The more complicated one would be that I'd break a large amount of serious laws if we were doing something like that.
When testing the service out, some users asked for further assurance. The solution that seemed to be liked the most involved a video feed (or pictures), that showed how we opened the package, removed the drive and destroyed it. That's something that we'd build down the road if I get enough requests or feel that it would move the needle in the right direction.
For now, here's what we do: receive the drive, degauss (demagnetize) it, destroy it. The customer is notified when the package arrives and when the drive is destroyed, at which point we send a certificate of destruction.
Also, we'm in the process of getting our NAID AAA, eStewards, R2 and ISO 14001 certifications. The machines and processes that we use follow all of their guidelines, it's just a matter of getting approved (and paying the fees).
Let me know if you have any other ideas on how we could show/proof that we're trustworthy. Interested in listening to any suggestions.
What phone are you using? There might be a bug, and I'd like to fix it.
Here's a screenshot of what it looks like on my iPhone 5: http://destroyer.io/chat-screenshot.png
The chat box should be at the bottom right hand side of the screen.
Let me know and I'll get on it. Thanks!
PS: Just noticed there's another HN thread on Destroyer.io, I had posted one, and had been answering questions, here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8074934
I may be asking for too much, but if you can email me a screenshot to alex@destroyer.io, I'd appreciate it. If you want, send your address too and I'll mail you a Destroyer.io sticker.
Thanks again and sorry about the bug. Cheers.
Cheers!