Comment by thinkpad20 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by thinkpad20 | Hacker News Reader

I'm a male in the software industry, and I never really know what to make of these sorts of articles. It's terrible that someone should have to go through this. The anonymity of the internet is a great and terrible thing -- some people really get off on being horrible to people, and unfortunately when that person is a male, and they know they're talking to a woman, the low-hanging fruit is base sexism. But what is supposed to be done about it? More specifically, what am I supposed to do about it? I know that I find that kind of behavior abhorrent. I would never think that stuff, let alone say it. Knowing my coworkers as I do, I'm 99% sure that the same can be said of them. So, I just don't know how to respond to this. Should I feel guilty? For what? I didn't do this stuff. The issue that I have with this is that I feel like I'm supposed to feel like a bad person because of my gender. Quotes like "men tend to inherently [insert stereotype here]" are apparently great enough to be made inspirational posters out of. Is the author oblivious to this sexism? Or is it OK, because it's targeting men?

I think it's deplorable what the author and the women she describes have gone through. I think that we all should re-examine our behavior to ensure that we aren't perpetrating this sort of thing. But I wish that the article, and others like it, weren't couched in terms of demonizing half of humanity.

What should you do?

- Think about how you act around the women in your life, the women you interact with as public figures, your female coworkers, etc. Critically self-examine. Do you treat them like fully formed human beings? When someone asks you to name the "top X in your field" do you automatically always think of a man? Things like that. The answers can end up entirely being "Yes, I do treat women like human beings" - no one was ever harmed by a little self-reflection.

- Similarly, think about that behavior in others. Stand up when someone says something sexist - toe-curling awful, or just subtle. Take your female coworkers at their word when they talk about their experiences.

How are you (or all of us men) being demonized? She describes a few things she and other people have gone through. She says she doesn't feel safe. She asking people not to tell her to have a thicker skin. That's the article, more or less. Where is the demonization?

FTA:

> We live in a society that’s sexist in ways it doesn’t understand. One of the consequences is that men are extremely sensitive to being criticized by women. I think it threatens them in a very primal way, and male privilege makes them feel free to lash out.

Attributing malice to an actor due to circumstances beyond his control or understanding... I think that qualifies as demonizing. It's reminiscent of racialist and eugenics theory.

This is a good read and the ideas in its background apply to a number of issues, one of which being the perceived helplessness you have mentioned.

http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/WarZoneChaptIIIE.htm...

For convenience's sake,

> I want to see you use those legendary bodies and that legendary strength and that legendary courage and the tenderness that you say you have in behalf of women; and that means against the rapists, against the pimps, and against the pornographers. It means something more than a personal renunciation. It means a systematic, political, active, public attack. And there has been very little of that.

But do RTFA :)

I'm not sure what "systematic, political, active, public attack" means when the enemy are anonymous internet trolls.

It's about combating injustice and miscreant behavior where we find it. You don't act that way. Super. Neither do I. Criticizing the behavior in others (which, make no mistake, is all motivated by gender) doesn't push you into some sort of solidarity of villainy. The instant recourse to "not all men" and "not my friends" is a kind of solipsism that's not helpful. Yes, a two-year-old can tell you "not all men." Now that we have that observation out of the way, what's next? Are we done? Are you more upset at the tone of the article you don't quite like, or at the rape threats?

I think you need to stop reading things like this as "demonizing half of humanity." You being offended by an article like this is actually part of the problem, it results in silencing articles like this because some men don't like them, or don't feel like it applies to them.

Personally, as a male who isn't nearly as terrible as many of the men in this article, I think these articles are important. It is worth reading to raise your own awareness of the problems women face in our industry, and it is also worth reading to heighten awareness of your own actions, especially subtle things you might do and not be aware of. We should all be learning and try to better ourselves.

The article was very sexist. He is not "part of the problem" because he was offended by it. Maybe you don't see how sexist it is because you were predisposed to agree with it.

EDIT: Direct quote from the article: "We live in a society that’s sexist in ways it doesn’t understand. One of the consequences is that men are extremely sensitive to being criticized by women. I think it threatens them in a very primal way, and male privilege makes them feel free to lash out."

Anyone is justified at being offended by that.

I just want you to know that you are part of the problem. You are perpetrating the toxic, disgusting, shameless misandry in the article. You definitely need to know that, and you need to take steps to address it.

What you do is you call shit out when you see it so that other dudes don't think it's normal or acceptable.

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