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Comment by johnrob | Hacker News Reader

The U.S. is slowly (and inevitably) becoming Europe, where living with parents while in your 30s is not abnormal.

That's a pretty broad generalization of a continent with a lot of variation in cultural patterns, economics of housing markets, structure of workforces, etc. Here are some numbers, from 1994, but should give an illustration of the range:

    Share of those at age 25-29 still living in parent's home, %
                      Men   Women
    France            22.5  10.3 
    Germany           28.8  12.7 
    Great Britain     20.8  10.8 
    Spain             64.8  47.6 
    Greece            62.6  32.1 
    Italy             66.0  44.1

Source: http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/spru/research/nordic/gerdem.pdf - it quotes source as EUROSTAT Data by Fernandez-Cordon 1997, itself quoted by Lauterbach and Lüscher 1999, p.430:

Lauterbach, Wolfgang and Kurt Lüscher (1999), ’Wer sind die Spätauszieher? Oder: Herkunftsfamilie, Wohnumfeld und die Gründung eines eigenen Haushalts. Eine empirische Untersuchung über das Alter bei der Haushaltsgründung’, in Zeitschrift für Bevölkerungswissenschaft 24 (4), 425-448.

Interesting, the countries in the sun belt of Europe: Spain, Greece and Italy have the highest live at home rates, they also have some pretty pricey real estate due to demand from Germany, the UK, and other northern Europeans.

I guess it's more likely about the culture and family values rather than the economic facts when it comes to countries those called to have meditterenean culture (Spain, Greece, Italy and a bunch more). ie. in Turkey a guy is simply not expected to move out until marriage.

This is fascinating, thank you. I've been told a lot of the issues surrounding the boomerang generation in Italy has to do with policies that are defensive of older employees, thus making it more difficult for young adults to find jobs.

I was interested in correlating these numbers with birth rates, as I knew Italy had among Europe's lowest and France had among the highest. But the results are disappointing (or maybe not, I'm not a statistician). FWIW, the amended table is below, using numbers from the CIA World Factbook.

    Share of those at age 25-29 still living in parent's home, %;
    birth rate per thousand
                      Men   Women Birth Rate
    France            22.5  10.3  12.57
    Germany           28.8  12.7  8.18
    Great Britain     20.8  10.8  10.65 (for the UK)
    Spain             64.8  47.6  9.72
    Greece            62.6  32.1  9.45
    Italy             66.0  44.1  8.18

Do you have any statistics of how many European young people live with their parents? I am interested in 20-25 years age range.

I am asking because I have a bunch of friends in Europe and none of them lives with parents. As far as I can tell, their social programs make it much easier to live on their own than, for example, in my home country (Uzbekistan).

One can't generalize "European" on this. The difference between, say, Norway and Portugal is colossal.

My bad. I was talking about basically about Germany and Hungary.

Well, social programs can be a factor in that, but IMHO most of the difference is cultural. In Southern Europe, large, multi-generation households are traditional, much less so in the North.

In the same way that you can't generalize 'US Of A' on anything either. East Coast vs West Coast vs Middle America can vary wildly on different topics.

True, but the USA, unlike Europe, is considered a single nation-state. In European countries there are differences within national borders as well, e.g. northern part of Italy vs Sicily. That said there are definitely great commonalities in Europe that can be generalized, my point was that this metric isn't one of them.

And I am actually surprised with the quoted 1/3rd figure for the USA. Might be true but not what I'd expect from my outsiders insight into American culture.

Yea, but a lot of these figures are based on statistics, and sometimes it doesn't take things like the varied socio-economic situations around the USA. I would take figures like this to be more accurate the more localized that they were (i.e. '1/3rd on the West Coast' or '1/3rd in major cities' etc)

"I am asking because I have a bunch of friends in Europe and none of them lives with parents. As far as I can tell, their social programs make it much easier to live on their own than, for example, in my home country (Uzbekistan)."

Why do we need social programs to live on our own? I am 28 and have been on my own since I got out of college. I was able to find a job within 6 months of graduating that paid me enough to move out (which isn't that expensive in most parts of the US).

I think the reason many people in their 20s can't move out is because of credit card debt. I have so many friends that are thousands of dollars in debt..because they decided they needed the latest gadgets.

What we need is for more people to take personal responsibility.

Because it is really helpful for a young person to know that you are protected in case of serious illness, that if you want to have kids, they will be socially protected which means that they will be able to get good education, health care, educational trips and so on without you paying ridiculous premiums, fees and getting into huge debt.

It is also really nice to know that the government will take good care of your parents after their retirement. That they will be able to pay bills, travel, get medicare, etc.

When this basic stuff figured out, young people feel safe.

That said, there is another interesting problem here: when young people feel safe they may become too lazy. And when people get too lazy, society starts to stagnate which is, as far as I understand, a huge problem in some european countries. But that's a completely different thing to discuss.

But we largely live in a consumer society where we are constantly bombarded with messages to 'buy! buy! buy!' Is it any wonder that lots of people fall for the messages? Especially when you have entire companies full of marketing people all trying to figure out a way to convince you that you need their clients' products.

It's nice when you are born on second base... Unfortunately, you think it means you hit a double.

I have a friend who lived off of pell grants and loans to make it through a degree. He did not have the aptitude for math or science, and came from a very poor family (his father, at 80, still works at a Burger King.) He did not have connections from his family. He did not have any of the life lessons on how to survive in a middle class system.

He ended up graduating, and could not find a job of any sort. It's quite possible, had he grown up white, straight, and middle class, that he would have been fine.

He tried to go back to school, thinking that this would be the answer. (After all, it delayed loan payback.) In the meantime, he did what he was able to do: sell drugs. He went to graduate school and sold drugs because he couldn't gather the money to move, he couldn't get a job, and he didn't have options that we with privilege do.

It's fun to laugh at the whiny white kids who rack up college credit cards and have to stay at home, but personal responsibility only goes so far.

(PS -- my friend now has a drug conviction, a risk he ran because of one of the choices he made to survive. He now has even fewer choices.)

> I have a friend who lived off of pell grants and loans to make it through a degree. He did not have the aptitude for math or science

Then why did he go to college? Why didn't he work and go to a community college?

Making excuses for him only allows him a pass for personal responsibility, as if selling drugs was his only option -- ha!

Considering that he was unable to get a job after a full college degree, how much do you think a community college would have helped?

He Couldn't Get A Job. The path that he had been told was that education was the key to getting out of the ghetto. He Still Couldn't Get A Job and now he is in a worse position than when he started.

It doesn't make sense to generalize in that way. It may be true for Spain but it is not true for most European nations.

That's the most ignorant comment I have read in a long time. You have never been to Scandinavia, I presume. Newsflash: Europe is more than Italy and Spain. Most people in Germany and Scandinavia, for instance, leave their parents' home at 18.

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