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Comment by jiggy2011 | Hacker News Reader

jiggy2011

That figure includes partial speakers , so people who learned a little French in school but probably have a much better knowledge of say English. With the exception of France most countries that legitimately speak French as the main language are either tiny or third world.

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Being spoken in the least developed countries seems more like a plus for French than a minus. As those countries develop, French will become even more important (assuming they still speak French). A language like German on the other hand will never experience this kind of organic growth because pretty much everywhere that speaks German is already well developed (and has negative or near-zero population growth, which certainly isn't helping the language grow).

Examples of French speaking countries would be Rwanda, Congo, Niger and Madagascar. You could be waiting a very long time for these to become significant economies.

There are many more than that though. Basically you can draw a line from Congo to Algeria, and every country west of that line speaks French. There are 4 exceptions : Nigeria, Ghana, Liberia and Sierra Leone.

That still leaves a huge pool of speakers. Probably not enough to make it the 'most spoken language in the world by 2050'[0] because it is mostly spoken by educated and urban people, and far less in the countryside, but enough to make it a dynamic, growing language.

[0] : http://www.forbes.com/sites/pascalemmanuelgobry/2014/03/21/w...

Well, it's more that French is an official language of those countries, rather than those countries speak French. WP has a list where most of those countries have only around 10%[1] of the population that can speak French. Given that French isn't particularly popular in the world of business (English and Chinese rule there) and that English seems to have become the default in science and engineering, it seems an assumption that a growing African economy would retain its French as it's primary 'international' language.

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_where_French_...

There are some regional shifts involved in some of those countries. Burundi and Rwanda are looking more east than west in recent years, and East Africa uses a mixture of Swahili and English rather than French as the common language.

Rwanda in particular is not in practice really part of French-speaking Africa anymore. The numbers you link show only 3% of Rwandans speak partial French, which is barely more than any other country where a handful of people choose French as a foreign language in school. That's related to the ethnic unrest in the country; much of the current elite are ex-refugees who grew up in Uganda, which is not Francophone, and there's also a political edge to it because they consider France to have been too close to the previous Hutu-dominated government.

Don't forget Montreal. It's the 8th largest city in North America. It has a rich history of bilingualism, but it's essentially French speaking.

My understanding is that 80% of people in Montreal use English as their primary language.

Your understanding is not consistent at all with the government census stats. French only at home: 56%. English only at home: ~10%. French mainly + other climbs higher.

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/as-sa/98-...

It also doesn't seem true that Allophones (born not speaking English or French) necessarily are using English the most as their 2nd language. Allophones using French most often at home is increasing over time.

http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/Products/Analytic/c...

Going outside Montreal will yield 90%+ French speakers.

I would also offer my anecdote to the statistics that Tiktaalik provided based on a few trips to Montreal and French Canada over the last couple years--while it's true that many people speak English as well as French, English seems to be popular because of the large number of English speaking tourists that visit the city (in no small part because of its French culture). Even in the touristy areas you're greated with "Bonjour-hello" to see how you choose to respond. There were a few times I've been grateful to have some background in French, as the person I was talking to didn't know any English (this however, was mostly on the outskirts of Montreal and in smaller towns). Overall, I was surprised at how francophone the city/region as a whole were, as before traveling I had anticipated it being equally French and English.

Maybe that was true in 1965, but it's nowhere near the case today.

Historically the downtown business core of Montréal was Anglophone while the poorer, rural areas were completely Francophone. However, rural people could still vote: the result was the 1976 provincial victory for the Parti Québécois who immediately introduced far-reaching legislation requiring the use of French in public places, in the workplace, etc. The effect of this was to make Toronto Canada's primary business center.

There are still some English areas, I think mostly around McGill. Most of the city is completely French though.

As an English-speaker with only a rudimentary knowledge of French, I found Paris a lot easier than Montréal to get around in. In Paris, as long as you can remember to start with a nice "Bonjour"/"Bon soir" everyone I spoke with was happy to help in English as best they could. In Montréal, language is so politicized that doesn't work. To be fair, once people found out I wasn't from Canada they would be friendly and helpful -- their first assumption, though, would be that I was probably just someone from Ontario, must have had some French in school, and now am just refusing to try.

Thanks for the correction! I wasn't aware it had changed that much.

I am well aware of the treatment you get as an English speaker in Quebec. If they think you're non-Canadian, they are super friendly. If they think you're Anglophone Canadian, watch out!

It is the same for French (from France). As soon as they spot your french (from France) accent, and it just starts by saying "Bonjour" , they become less friendly. Exaggerating a little bit French are seen as pedantic, think he knows better than everyone else, and not trustworthy (but it is not exclusive to Québec ;-))

I am french and lived in Quebec for a few years. Be aware that the french spoken in Québec is somewhat different in every way (vocabulary, expressions and pronunciation) than the one spoken in France. For instance, up in the thread frandroid wrote "Je vais aller au dépanneur" and translated it to "I will go to the convenience store". For a French the translation would be "I am going to the auto repair shop" ;-) As a French I have hard time understanding french Québec people even after a few years spent there, mostly due to pronunciation (now I know the most common expressions and vocabulary).

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