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Comment by rco8786 | Hacker News Reader

Everything about this article seems hand-wavy and just...wrong. I don't mean to paint with a wide brush but as someone in "the industry"(and in SV) I have to guess that there is something else at play here if someone with a Stanford CS PhD really had this much trouble finding a job in 2014.

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Very few folks in the industry want to hire a PhD because they are a) expensive b) often know-it-alls with little practical experience churning out boilerplate code which is the majority of positions.

Now, you can hate on my comment without realizing that I respect the work and knowledge represented by such an achievement, but this is just real-talk from 15 years in the trenches. I have no college degree and am probably more marketable simply due to my wide experience in various industries and projects. That is sad but true and maybe indicative of the funked up system we inhabit.

Everything you said is very true from what I've seen.

I would suggest against a PhD in CS right now unless you know exactly where you want to work and that they require that kind of degree, or if you want to be a teacher then a PhD is very valuable. I need stuff that works and fast, not to re-invent the wheel by using outdated techniques your professors taught you.

A masters degree is probably the best higher education in this field. For programming it's all about ability, work-ethic, and long term relationships with the company, because you are an investment as an employee.

I do consulting and have never had anyone ask me about a degree (I have a degree in a completely unrelated field), I don't even give out a resume and would not hesitate to tell a potential client to piss off just because of the huge amount of work available for someone who can create value for a company.

>I need stuff that works and fast, not to re-invent the wheel by using outdated techniques your professors taught you.

It seems you have a very wrong idea of what PhD training is. It isn't about any outdated techniques, unless you call science outdated. PhDs is about doing research and writing scientific articles and presentations documenting that research. Everything else is a side effect.

Except you've been studying this very narrow topic for 6 years and spending all your time on it. Any technique you're using is most likely very specialised to that topic or something you learnt in either masters or undergrad.

Whereas someone in the industry has been developing their generalist skills and keeping up with current technology.

"Except you've been studying this very narrow topic for 6 years and spending all your time on it. Any technique you're using is most likely very specialised to that topic or something you learnt in either masters or undergrad. Whereas someone in the industry has been developing their generalist skills and keeping up with current technology."

True. Although if you can complete a phd at Stanford you almost certainly have the ability and drive to get to senior developer level within a year or two in industry. But when it comes down to it most companies don't hire for who you will be or who you can become but for your current skills and abilities.

Which is ok, but don't then turn around and complain about a skills shortage. And don't complain that employees have very little loyalty. And don't complain when you have to pay $150-$300/hr for experienced developers with expertise in your specific stack.

I disagree. I believe 6 years in the industry also focus you in a very narrow topic, like SAP, web or Iphone apps.

You think you are generalist because you don't even know anything else exist.

I don't really think working in the industry makes you a generalist. If you have been working on the same product for a couple of years, your experience is limited mostly to that field, that technology, that problem etc. Of course, the benefit of not being in a PhD program is that you are free to hop around and work on a different thing every year.

I've got to agree with you. I have a PhD from an British university, and recently moved back to the US. I haven't scored an industry job yet, rather I'm working as a postdoc in SoCal. But anyway, I've been trying very hard to engage with industry by attending programming meetups and demonstrating my skills to people who could be involved in hiring. Most of what I've talked to people about has gone over well. Sure it is a different path to go from a PhD to industry than to go in from undergraduate, but you will have developed thinking skills during it that will be valuable to any company. As far as showing that you are up to snuff on "best practices", a good set of github projects will go a long way if you have developed the right connections.

I have met a lot of PhDs in computational fields with mediocre coding skills, but if you are in the position of being up with the times it's just a matter of marketing yourself properly. Not easy, but as I like to say, if you can code well your not in danger of starving anytime soon in this day and age.

Here's my advice. As a PhD you have access to certain positions that are unavailable to the rest of us. But you're also cut off from the majority of positions in the industry for better or worse. You've got to market yourself on your quality, find a place you can stay with for a while, and build a legacy you can take to your next place.

For folks like me, we hop between jobs every 1-3 years because I can come in, understand the rather mundane issues facing a codebase and rectify them relatively quickly from my extensive real-world experience before moving on to the next spot with a modest-to-sometimes-significant bump in pay. But I can never get access to the sorts of positions you will have access to.

> But you're also cut off from the majority of positions in the industry for better or worse.

Why? do they fire you if they discover that you secretly have a CS PhD?

Because you don't need PhD for those jobs. But as a PhD you would be asking a higher salary than a BS(CS). So its simply more efficient for the company to hire an experienced BS(CS).

But with a PhD, you can target jobs that the employer feels are too complex and demanding for a simple BS

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