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Comment by AlyssaRowan | Hacker News Reader

Just so you know, they're pulling the same kind of shit over here in the UK: "emergency powers" being pushed through with barely a debate by an unelected PM, his lapdog deputy in the Lib Dems, and a weak opposition, with tripartisan support thanks to the party whips. No one even really knows or understands what they're agreeing to, the "temporary" shouldn't fool anyone as it can be extended (and it would be an 'emergency' not to, wouldn't it?) - and the real kicker is that the "emergency" is the EU courts have ruled the UK's existing mass data retention laws contravene our human rights, so the UK Government's response is to… pass another mass data retention law as a matter of urgency, explicitly before ISPs start deleting (unlawfully collected) data.

What the fuck. Sometimes politicians just disgust me. We could use some help over here too - Pirate Party UK, maybe, or the Green Party?

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PPUK needs all the help it can get, the Greens might also be a good choice but be aware of their occasional technophobia.

Vote for pro-EU parties. Or really any party that isn't UKIP.

This would not have happened if the UK had listened to the ECHR or the ECJ.

> Vote for pro-EU parties

This basically pans down to the Greens or the Lib Dems. The former have just one voice, Caroline[0], in the House of Commons. The latter is led by the guy standing alongside the Prime Minister as this "emergency legislation" was announced, and offered his vocal support. In any case, the Lib Dems will also likely be ground in to dust in the coming general election: currently polling at <10%[1], down from about 25-30% prior to the last[2]. So, even if they were successful at moderating Government policy with respect to social liberties, they soon won't matter.

[0] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQYutZb2iGk

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Un...

[2] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7511352/poll-t...

Won't help that much. The existing laws were actually EU laws that a previous UK government had pushed for, essentially using the EU's lack of democratic accountability to make sure voters didn't have a say in it. This happens quite a bit. The only reason they're resorting to this trick is because their usual EU-based one failed.

Could an alternative DNS system fix this? Tor for DNS that both masked the lookup and the resulting IP would stop any type of filtering/blocking/take down etc? Coupled with https, to stop packet inspection?

Social and political problems are rarely fixed with engineering solutions.

Well, they are rarely fixed by engineering solutions that just try to hide the activity / behavior from view, and ignore the fact that it's a social/political problem.

I can easily come up with 'engineering solutions' to solve social / political problems, but it's usually paired with some sort of social/political action (e.g. engineering cheap weapons to supply a violent revolution).

This. They can help mitigate the damage, and be a force for change, but - to paraphrase Schneier - these systems are robust legally, technically and politically - we need to fight on all fronts to defeat them, and just winning once won't do it, we have to keep fighting back against abusive laws, systems and politicians because they will keep trying until they get whatever they want, at every stage.

We can't magic rogue institutions, politicians and laws away with maths. But it can have an impact on the practical damage they can do.

2014, maybe its about time. You just have to define your problem set correctly, and work with reality rather than an idealised version of it(goes especially for historical precedences). we are lazy, selfish - egocentric, opportunistic animals .. with some natural variations into - what could be considered extremes (altruism / full blown "sociapathism" as an example). Designing public institutions means designing systems those institutions will run on - means getting rid of the non-existent ideals we like to assign to our selves as a species and start working with the sorry-state reality of homo-sapiens-sapiens - hence, engineering challenge ( like designing machinery for a self-managed pig-farm - and yes I chose pigs as an example on purpose )

I disagree. Modern day encryption has smashed a hole in massive social/political issues.

I would go the other way, engineering solutions (i.e Technology) dictate social and political problems.

I know this is Serious Business, but all I can think is -- have these people not SEEN Star Wars?

I think they are aware of the issues and just don't care. Like most things, 90% of people aren't going to be obviously impacted.

It will only be the people they want to give the shaft too. To make matters worse, the majority of those people will actually deserve it which will give them the cover they need. :/

I think comparing David Cameron to the Emperor is a bit of a stretch. ;)

Follow @tom_watson for more info on this (https://twitter.com/tom_watson).

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