The best salespeople have expensive hobbies | Hacker News Reader

The best salespeople have expensive hobbies

quotacrush.com

40 pointsciscoriordan25 comments

...we are trained at the core to manipulate conversations, control the direction of conversations, get you to feel good about what we are saying, and convince you that the things you are looking for are not what you are looking for - but you are instead looking for the things that are good in us.

Fortunately, he does not speak for all salespeople. Good technical salespeople are trusted advisors and business partners working toward mutually beneficial solutions.

If OP's "Sales 101 for entrepreneurs" lecture was about manipulation and control, I'll pass.

Whether it's building or selling, I prefer to do what is always in my customer's best interest.

Yeah, I had never heard of the author before this article but he certainly got me to dislike him very quickly.

Must not be a very good salesperson...

I felt likewise, but maybe he's still a good salesperson. Ever have the experience that someone made you feel too embarrassed to walk away without buying something?

I feel like he's hinting at a technique that would work with me. "What? You don't want to buy our database software because there's no support for transactions? I'll get the coders to write it for you special. How could you say no if I'll do that for you?" I never feel good about those transactions afterward.

Boiler Room (the movie) has many examples of that kind of manipulative sales technique.

i thought he was going to say people with expensive hobbies hang out with other people that have money - and therefore rub elbows with potential buyers or people who are connected to other buyers. I think this would be a good secondary effect. You are much more likely to meet the owner of the bay area's biggest XYZ company skiing at Squaw than fishing at the docks in Alemeda

I always met far more interesting people in random places in the Valley than skiing at Squaw.

(amazed at the mix of ex-pats who played touch rugby at Stanford, including some VPs and a referee who had officiated at State of Origin)

I always met far more interesting people...

But what about people with whom you're likely to close a sale?

Tangent: Scubadiving is not so expensive. You can get your open water license for a few hundred dollars, and go out diving for a day for $50 including renting all gear, wetsuit, etc. I mean, it's not really cheap, but it's not much more expensive than going out to the bar drinking, or even to dinner and a movie. And it's one of the most enjoyable, transcendent experiences on Earth. Buoyancy over the ocean floor, with clear visibility in warm water, and a school of brilliant colored fish swimming around you - it's better than sex. And it's not so expensive, really. It just scares a lot of people that didn't grow up "upper class", the way tennis, golf, etc. scare people. You need someone to introduce you to it, and you'll be in love. I do my best thinking underwater. It's that good.

If you rent all of your gear then diving is not really a hobby, it is just something you know how to do. After the last cycling thread I will try to avoid looking like a purist, but rental gear usually has a poor fit [esp. fins and mask], is not of great quality, and unless you are going to overpay by renting at the water's edge you need to deal with the hassle of filling out forms, picking it up, dropping it off, etc. Once you know that you like to dive you are better off putting together your own rig.

I can rent a bike, but if I don't actually have one sitting in my garage I would have a hard time claiming that biking is a hobby.

That being said, you can get a good basic rig for a reasonable amount of money (~$500) and just rent tanks. If you really like diving you will save that much money after 15-20 dives over renting all your gear and you will end up with something that fits you and your diving style better.

I play paintball every single weekend, although I always rent everything (including jacket). I even have a team I play on... but it's not a hobby since I don't buy the stuff on my own? Or does it only apply to biking and diving?

it's not a hobby since I don't buy the stuff on my own?

In everyday speech, it's a hobby, but not in the definition that the author uses as a heuristic for "good salespeople".

When I signed up for diving it was my first really expensive hobby. The instructor said to just buy the fins, mask, suit, and belt. Instead of an octopus get a diving computer and never buy tanks unless you live close to where you dive. I agree with you up to a point but there are logistical problems with your argument. Some of the best diving places are only available by flight. I'd rather spend the money diving than on shipping tanks across the country.

Also, a good dive shop has fairly new equipment for rent. If they are good at what they do then it will show in the quality of the equipment and staff.

Now that I have kids I still consider it a hobby. But one I only get to do once a year. I've added a few more expensive hobbies to my list since exiting my broke college student phase: International travel, photography, and wine.

BTW, every good salesman I've met has expensive hobbies and a rich spouse :-)

This sounds like the best way to find the stereotypical sales person. The sales person who turns everything into a competition. A person who'll race you to the water fountain then brag about how much more they can drink than you.

Are those really the types of people I have to have in order to win? I know I'd want to kill them after a month of them being there. And, I bet my customers would feel the same way about them.

I've known three types of sales person.

The first is perhaps the most obvious: Mercedes, slicked back hair, always on the phone. They work by having a kind of primal desire to win: they never stop, they keep calling, they play hard, they give 100%. It's distasteful, but if I had to get 100M in sales, these are the people I'd try to attract. I've heard them called "lions". You need these if you're trying to win big contracts against competitors, because they can go from no foot in the door to a contract by sheer persistence.

The second is I think (hope?) more common in tech. Smart, fairly technically inclined, and long-term thinkers. They don't come off as slimy, but they do somehow remember your name. These people keep clients by learning requirements, keeping track of them, keeping relationships warm, and keeping the tech/product people loosely coupled with the customers. You need these if you're a tools company, because you live by long-term customers.

The third is more subtle, and I've only met one. This is the technically minded, completely non-conniving leader. By apparently completely honest, clear technical dialog with customers they build trust and confidence, which are the root of sales. It just happens that it's genuine. This works really well, but you sure can't fake it.

Ah man I wish I'd seen this when you wrote it. I think this is great break down of the personalities of sales people. There are different types, and they have different skills sets as you so eloquently pointed out. I think, if I may interpret a little, what your saying is you need all three, or at least a mixed bag. You can't use the 3rd to steal contracts away from big customers because building trust takes a long time. If it is time sensitive the lion is important. But, remember everybody's got lions. They aren't unique. If you want to keep that business you need one of the other two because customers won't jump ship because they trust the other type of sales person.

A successful advertising sales manager once told me that he always his encouraged his salespeople to buy expensive things - big tvs, fancy cars, nice houses. The more they indulge themselves, the more they have to sell. Sounds like a miserable life to me, but apparently it works.

Yep. One piece of advice I have received multiple times is to never hire a VP of sales who is not mortgaged to the hilt and living beyond his/her salary. The incentive to cover a large nut is what drives a lot of them to go out and close the deal.

Man, these comments are depressing

Sales as a profession is slightly depressing.

This sounds like bad advice to me. Doesn't this mean that the VP would be the sort of person who would do "anything" to close the deal? Including lying to the customer?

I've worked with such people before and it was not fun. I was stuck explaining to the customer why the product he bought doesn't do what the sales guy promised.

Call me naive, but I still believe that a sales person is someone who works with the customer to try and solve his problem with whatever he is selling.

Very short-sighted. You need confidence as a sales person so that you avoid wasting your time when the customer is not going to buy but if you "manipulate" someone into buying something that is not useful for them, then go back to sell to them again...

A heronie habit?

Guess you don't need to proofread if you're God's gift to salesmanship.

Comic books are an expensive habit.

So are children

I know! I have 3 (I'm the lone woman in the news.yc survey stats with more than one kid).

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