The Supreme Court’s tech illiteracy is becoming a big problem
salon.com
salon.com
I'm not defending the author or his position, but I don't find that dismissal very compelling either.
As a reader one of the first problems I had was that the criticism of Ebay as an invention is reasonable.
I also thought it was funny to bring up the ages of the various justices, point out that it didn't reflect their technological savvy and then move on to other things, never to come back again.
"'I may not be a software developer, but as I read the invention [of eBay], it’s displaying pictures of your wares on a computer network and, you know, picking which ones you want and buying them.' [Chief Justice Roberts] next said about the multibillion-dollar Internet corporation: 'I might have been able to do that.'"
That statement is reasonable to this software developer.
edit:
"In a recent oral argument about a computer-implemented, electronic escrow service, Justice Kennedy asked whether 'a second-year college class in engineering” or 'any computer group of people sitting around a coffee shop in Silicon Valley” could write the code for it 'over a weekend.' The lawyer said yes, to the dismay of many in the industry."
I completely lack dismay. Couldn't any computer group of people sitting around a coffee shop in Silicon Valley write an electronic escrow application over the weekend?
Similarly the dismay of many in the industry thing. The author wants comp sci to be some kind of arcane lore that olds cant possibly understand because they're not hip enough. Tech stuff is also presented as kind of a black box that can't be compared to anything but itself, and if you aren't using silicon valley jargon 24/7 you just dont get it. The person who wrote the article in the OP is a tech cultist rather than a reasonable thinker.
Your edit came after my other reply; I think it actually is the case that a group of computer people sitting in a coffee shop could sketch out an escrow system over the weekend. I guess they wouldn't want to run a business on it, but the shape of it could be there, no problem.
But there are standard techniques for scaling and high availability. The patent simply covers the essence of the application itself. And I agree with you, demo-quality prototypes of auction and escrow apps are pretty easy to write.
Plus didn't the courts just rule that taking an abstract idea, like an auction market, and adding "on the computer" (or presumaby "on the internet") doesnt make it patentable?
Now at oral argument they sometimes use pretty out-there analogies, but some of that is trying to probe the limits of what an attorney for one side or the other is arguing. By asking "isn't this like X?" they're often trying to get the lawyer to clarify precisely why it isn't.
I don't think it was, but I certainly don't think it's because they're old and so stupid that they have to understand things by analogy rather than some sort of gnostic osmosis.
The justices' often use apparently clueless analogies to prompt the attorneys during oral arguments; these are suggestions that the argument needs to be clarified or reframed. Ultimatley, it's the attorneys job to make their cases, no matter how seemingly clueless the court might be.
Much/most of the real work at SCOTUS is done by clerks, some of sharpest young minds in the US. I'm betting they will peruse HN for background on issues.
It's incredibly easy to cherrypick from the vast library of court opinions for a few rotten tomatoes to throw at a straw man.
But the inability to truly understand the impact of technology on the country and the globe by the highest court in the land - and further inability to understand that much of that impact exists without deep historical context and outside traditional court definitions - is worrying. To think that this group of technology-illiterate academics can hand down judgments that can drastically alter the legality of future innovations - without understanding the most basic parts of those innovations - should give everyone pause.
I'm sure their clerks are incredibly bright - but so are the lawyers standing before the Supreme Court - and if they can't explain the technology they're trying to defend to the justices, what makes you think a clerk can do better?
It's incredibly easy to stifle innovation and its potential offspring for centuries by not understanding it.
>To think that this group of technology-illiterate academics can hand down judgments that can drastically alter the legality of future innovations - without understanding the most basic parts of those innovations - should give everyone pause.
This is not the job of courts nor is it intended according to the US constitution. That job falls on the other two branches of the government i.e Congress that needs to make and update laws of the land and the executive which has some discretion on which are actually enforced etc.
The job of the courts is only to see what the written word of laws means and get inside the heads of the lawmakers wrote that law at the time to try to learn the intent behind the law and how it applies to the case at hand. Thus analogies are perfectly appropriate to pursue.
If Congress thinks that, for example, the Aereo decision was wrong and hurts innovation, they can pass legislation legalizing Aereo in probably just a week or two. It's not the court's job to decide that Aereo is good for innovation so it should be allowed to operate, even if it's illegal. It's the courts job to understand what Aereo is, and how the law and it's intent applies to it.
If it's incredibly easy, surely it must have happened a number of times.
The only way to approach something new is though analogy, right? I can't think of any other way.
That's certainly true to an extent, but it also strikes me as the sort of thing you're a lot more likely to hear from a philosopher than a mathematician. Sure, you could try to understand computers by drawing analogies to televisions and typewriters and everything else that they can emulate, but that approach will always miss the rather fundamental concept of what it means for a machine to be a universal computer, capable of building complex processes out of a very small set of very simple operations. The analogies only serve as our inspiration for which algorithms to implement and what meaning to ascribe to the result of a computation that the machine was always capable of performing. You can gain useful knowledge about the capabilities of computers in a bottom-up fashion starting with a simple instruction set and building things, just like mathematicians can start with a set of axioms and explore their implications ad infinitum.
I would hope that the reason we get these seemingly silly quotes is rather that the justices usually do this, and the occasional jokes result from boredom (even if they do show some misunderstanding).
Is HN really such an important source for background on cutting edge tech issues?
When a development hits the media, there will be a thread on it at HN, and that thread will contain entire arguments and links to curated sources. The question is where to start to research if you're not an engineer. This is a better place than most.
It's true that lawyers should explain their positions clearly in any court, but if the ultimate interpreter of fact can't even understand the facts they're being told, there's a fundamental problem.
I would be more concerned if the justices didn't ask the "dumb" questions or if they didn't try to comprehend using analogies, etc.
Many of these questions are asked during oral arguments, where a lawyer is describing the technology with other analogies and comparisons to things that have precedent. The justice then ends up saying, "Well, following this line of reasoning, you're basically saying that Ebay's business model is an invention. Is it?" The lawyer then has to respond and clarify what he's saying.
Some of their decisions in biology are equally suspicious. For example, should genes, proteins, or DNA be patentable? That one has gone to the Supreme Court on occasion. But patenting human genetics can lead to crazy scenarios like "suddenly the entire human population in the United States is violating Monsanto's patent", which is patently absurd. Of course, I am purposefully exaggerating and twisting some of the arguments, but you can see how the courts can get biology just as wrong as any other technology.
On a related and amusing note: In March 2000, President Clinton announced that the genome sequence could not be patented, and should be made freely available to all researchers. The statement sent Celera's stock plummeting and dragged down the biotechnology-heavy Nasdaq. The biotechnology sector lost about $50 billion in market capitalization in two days. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genome_Project
My point is Not that the court has flaws. It does--that's why the appointment of Supreme Court Justices is so dam important. Enen then, I've noticed justices change their views through out the years--so I'm glad they are there for life. Would I like to see Ph.D's in only the hard sciences a basic minimum as a requirement in order to be Supreme Court justices--Yes!
They also have historically had a completely different axis on which their decisions turn. Not left or right, but strict or flexible in their relationship to the constitution. It leads to some real surprises and people often interpret these in terms of political pressures but really the supreme court is the one set of people in government who care the least about pleasing some political masters.
That doesn't excuse them form actually understanding the issues and terms at hand. Analogies are good for a lot of things, but they're awful for many others, including most technologies. Instead of using an analogy to understand the cloud, they could use a definition: "other people's servers." It seems to me that this is indeed a failing on the justices' part to put in effort to understand technologies that they rule on time and time again. This is no surprise as they constantly ignore scientific evidence in their rulings.
This isn't stupidity, it's and abdication of their duty. Either way, both things lead to horrible rulings like the Aereo one.
http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/essay.html?id=87
Instead, they prefer a paper size based upon the Royal octavo:
Not sure if the recipients of a vellum document would think you're taking the piss or not.