Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

The people in most European countries will be less welcoming at first, but I can tell you, if you stick through you will find them to be more profound.

It helps that we don't have an American Dream which focusses on financial prosperity through hard work, but rather a joy of life (joie de vivre) which encourages us to enjoy the beauty of life and nature.

Travel to Tuscany or Portugal and see for yourself.

It's good to remind ourselves that you, and me, are not alone in this, and maybe to reflect on those "choices" "we" make and see if we can learn to live more of our own lives, and less of someone elses.

Play a sport you like, work on a project you enjoy (hack on something small and put it out in the world), make a few good friends and maybe work with them (not easy but worthwhile), remain intellectually honest (write down your thoughts / emotions).

Its a cliche to say it, but the gap is creation vs consumption.

You need to find what defines you, what you are about. Then, you'll need to make your peace with it. Own it.

I'm not sure the people you have mentioned feel any better about themselves than you do. Normal people reach a point where they have enough money and they stop and learn to paint or something. It's a particular kind of dysfunction to earn billions.

If you are not a downtown type, leave. There are plenty of bored potential partners in other places. Focus on joining organizations that will put you with other people of like interests. Shared experiences drive friendships. Drinking at pubs doesn't count. A group that hikes every weekend, does. Find a group that says important things.

You seem to dislike the shallowness you feel around you, so don't be shallow. Nothing you wrote says anything about you, just some vague ideas about success that feel thrust on you by what you've read. If you were really all about success and that junk, I don't think you would feel so miserable about pursuing it. You have freedom, much more than you think.

I’ll just leave you with this:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/9-youtube-videos-that-prove-anyo...

Not so much to prove that you can do it, but more for the change that anyone can see. You could hardly tell that it’s the same person in the first videos as the last ones.

P.S.

I found the more relevant article I was looking for:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-things-you-dont-realize-about-...

It goes into more detail about what I mentioned above – how you are a different person while drunk, but you might not realize this until you quit.

The message isn't as mixed as you think.

At that point you're trading drinking for all sorts of other things you could be doing on the weekend. It's a "hobby" and a lifestyle and comes with sacrifices.

Having a problem is a continuum and not black and white. I held a job and did progressively better for myself even in spite of drinking, however, I'd be lying if I said it didn't effect me at all. Only you can decide if the risk is worth the reward.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/features/12-hea...

Anemia, Cancer, Cardiovascular Disease (many of them), Cirrhosis, Dementia, Depression, Siezures, Gout, High Blood Pressure, Infectious Diseases, Nerve Damage, Pancreatitis

Also: Obesity, and likely higher risk of falling or other blunt trauma, it's really annoying to those around you, and it's a waste of money.

The real danger with alcohol is that unlike hard drugs (heroin, cocaine) the destruction takes years and it's very possible to trick yourself into thinking your consumption is fine by leading a normal life alongside the alcoholism... until it's too late, and then there's no turning back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korsakoff's_syndrome

I drink about 2-4 fairly strong beers a night (5-7% ABV), almost every night, and while I certainly feel it, I've only been "shitfaced" (or whatever you call "drinking to the point that you lose control") maybe half a dozen times in my life. The fact that I'm not doing the (apparently) normal thing for young folk and getting trashed every Friday night (or ever, really) gives me some relief, but I often worry about how much damage I'm doing with my less intense but sustained drinking habit.

Because if you sit up front and listen hard, all the speakers' stories of decline and fall and surrender are basically alike, and like your own: fun with the Substance, then very gradually less fun, then significantly less fun because of the blackouts you suddenly come out of on the highway going 145 kph with companions you do not know, nights you awake from in unfamiliar bedding next to somebody who doesn't even resemble any known sort of mammal, three-day blackouts you come out of and have to buy a newspaper to even know what town you're in; yes gradually less and less actual fun but with some physical need for the Substance, now, instead of the former voluntary fun; then at some point just very little fun at all, combined with terribly daily hand-trembling need, then dread, anxiety, irrational phobias, dim siren-like memories of fun, trouble with assorted authorities, knee-buckling headaches, mild seizures, and the litany of what Boston AA calls Losses - ... (here DFW interpolates part of a monologue from an AA speaker) -then less mild seizures, D.T.s during attempts to taper off too fast, introduction to subjective bugs and rodents, then one more binge and more formicative bugs; then eventually a terrible acknowledgment that some line has been undeniably crossed, and fist-at-the-sky, as-God-is-my-witness vows to buckle down and lick this thing for good, to quit for all time, then maybe a few white-knuckled days of initial success, then a slip, then more pledges, clock-watching, baroque self-regulations, repeated slips back into the Substance's relief after like two days' abstinence, ghastly hangovers, head-flattening guilt and self-disgust, superstructures of additional self-regulations (e.g. not before 0900h, not on a worknight, only when the moon is waxing, only in the company of Swedes) which also fail - ... -then unbelievable psychic pain, a kind of peritonitis of the soul, psychic agony, fear of impending insanity (why can't I quit if I so want to quit, unless I'm insane?), appearances at hospital detoxes and rehabs, domestic strife, financial free-fall, eventual domestic Losses - ... -then vocational ultimatums, unemployability, financial ruin, pancreatitis, overwhelming guilt, bloody vomiting, cirrhotic neuralgia, incontinence, neuropathy, nephritis, black depressions, searing pain, with the Substance affording increasingly brief periods of relief; then finally no relief available anywhere at all; finally it's impossible to freeze what you feel like, being this way; and now you hate the Substance, hate it, but you still find yourself unable to stop doing it, the Substance, you find you really want to stop more than anything on earth and it's no fun doing it anymore and you can't believe you ever liked doing it and but you still can't stop, it's like you're totally fucking bats, it's like there's two yous; and when you'd sell your own dear Mum to stop and still, you find, can't stop, then the last layer of jolly friendly mask comes off your old friend the Substance, it's midnight now and all the masks come off, and you all of a sudden see the Substance as it really is, for the first time you see the Disease as it really is, really has been all this time, you look in the mirror at midnight and see what owns you, what's become what you are - ... -and then you're in serious trouble, very serious trouble, and you know it, finally, deadly serious trouble, because this Substance you thought was your one true friend, that you gave up all for, gladly, that for so long gave you relief from the pain of the Losses your love of that relief caused, your mother and lover and god and compadre, has finally removed its smily-face mask to reveal centerless eyes and a ravening maw, and canines down to here, it's the Face In The Floor, the grinning root-white face of your worst nightmares, and the face is your own face in the mirror, now, it's you, the Substance has devoured or replaced and become you, and the puke-, drool-, and Substance-crusted T-shirt you've both worn for weeks now gets torn off and you stand there looking and in the root-white chest where your heart (given away to It) should be beating, in its exposed chest's center and centerless eyes is just a lightless hole, more teeth, and a beckoning taloned hand dangling something irresistible, and now you see you've been had, screwed royal, stripped and fucked and tossed to the side like some stuffed toy to lie for all time in the posture you land in.

[1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/f8me0/favourite_sente...

I'm not sure why you think we need more research about the harmful effects. There are a long list of known harmful effects, and they kick in at much lower levels than the triggur-levels for English drug and alcohol services. (40 units per day or 20 units per day if you also have severe MH problems (one unit is 125 ml at 8% ABV etc)) - harmful effects can be seen if people regularly drink more than 25 units per week.

(such a chemical would, in practice, be immediately banned in most countries)

It's not just a price issue, but all sorts of things like not being able to buy alcohol on a Sunday, despite not being religious. Or one that I personally still experience from time to time - being asked for ID despite being 12 years over the age limit.

These are all quality of life issues in my mind. If we were to solely go on doctors guidelines, life would be pretty boring. No sport - too dangerous. No drinking - too much liver damage. No sailing, no cheerleading, no mountain climbing, etc...

There comes a point at which you just have to tell the doctors that it's all well and good pointing out the risks, but ultimately, life is about risks. I can barely see the point in living if we deny ourselves all the slightly risky things just because of the potential downsides. It's cowardice wrapped up in a fresh new label for the modern age.

Not all issues boil down to "economic impact". Nor is it the only determining factor when deciding on such matters. You have to take into account peoples willingness, or lack thereof to do these things you speak of. Otherwise, you'll have to concede that all you're trying to do is maximize peoples' output for the purpose of benefiting the country, as if it were a farm.

If person died from diabetes, but drank, this goes into the "alcohol deaths" count, even if the person would have suffered from it without the alcohol.

Same thing for smoking. Yes, there are people who die of lung cancer without smoking or being exposed to specific carcinogens.

And of course everybody dies, but if the person has a heart attack at 80 and drank it is likely it will be considered an "alcohol related death"

Choices are: exercise really hard (marathon training) or starve yourself of normal food. Most will end up overweight instead. I'm not convinced either of those three choices are healthy in the long run.

Metabolic syndrome is the killer (often leading to cardiovascular disease, liver or kidney failure, blindness, amputations, and, perhaps, dimentia/Alzheimer's [the studies on this are early and not yet cinclusive]), but our society is so focused on weight that thin people automatically assume they are immune to it and everybody carrying any extra weight is assumed to have one foot in the grave. If you eat like crap (a sugar-laden, high trans fat diet of processed food-like substances), you are at risk unless you won the genetic lottery (and those genetics may just buy you time, not immunity).

"About 1.7 million people died from short-term causes such as crashes or accidents, compared to approximately 800,000 who died from long-term health causes like cancer or strokes, according to the study."

There's a lot of denial going on in this discussion.

Dr. David Nutt is working on this: http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2014/feb/27/david-nu... but there are already a large pile of options, just a lack of political will.

[1] Anti-drug referring to anti-illegal-drug. [2] of which consist of drugs that would never pass the medication approval process, but solely exist due to a history of use and grandfathering

I drank my first beer when I was 18 years old. That was the only beer that year. When 19 I drank two. When 20 I drank four. When 21 I drank eight (yes, really!). Around 23 I started drinking like everyone else. It's funny because I initially didn't drink by choice - thanks to religious upbringing + the general distaste for beer I refused to drink (and, sadly, partying[0]) alcohol, opting for coke instead. What I learned then is that alcoholic beverages just start to taste more the more you drink them.

[0] - It's not the booze I didn't drink that I regret; it's the connections with interesting people of various trades I could make, but didn't, because I haven't attended the university grills, etc.

I was maybe three months from being homeless, and after being out of work for nearly a year (nobody wanted to hire me, go figure. I thought I had things pretty well covered up...) I found a job with a small company writing simulation software. Two weeks into working for them I lost control and went on a binge and didn't show up for a week, and the CEO went by my condo and asked WTF. I told him. Went into detox later that day, did two weeks in-patient at The Camp in Scotts Valley, then did AA really solidly. It mostly stuck; my earlier visits to AA hadn't been absolutely desperate, and I figure I was pretty close to dying through suicide or something a lot more slow and miserable.

I don't work at that company any more, but it took the caring of a CEO who I barely even knew to really wake me up. I'm still sober 15 years later.

Just switching jobs won't help. Nor will making promises, or going to school, or switching majors, or exercising, or moving, or just about anything else that doesn't exactly target what alcoholism is all about. This sounds deadly serious, and it is, but in fact AA was a lot of fun and I made a number of fast friends. (Feel free to substitute the organization of your choice, but AA worked well for me and I don't have experience with another group).

But first, 5 drinks in 2-3 hrs for men vs. 4 drinks in 2-3 hrs for women isn't that different. Second, women on average weigh less, so that contributes to the difference as you mentioned. And third, there are other ways alcohol affects men and women differently.

Edit: Just saw the 15 drinks/week for men vs. 8 drinks/week for women which is a larger difference. However, to call USA Today 'sexist' because of that is kind of out there. These numbers aren't just made up out of thin air: for example, http://www.icap.org/PolicyIssues/ExtremeDrinking/tabid/91/De...

Why? Differences in organ sizes, hormones, muscle, etc would surely play a role. E.g. A 35% body fat 65kg woman wouldn't process alcohol the same way a 20% body fat 65kg woman would.