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Why is this on top of HN? Their protocol is not secure and they do not encrypt 1:1 chats by default and encrypting group chats with end to end is not even possible!!! Guys, please read http://www.cryptofails.com/post/70546720222/telegrams-crypta... and http://thoughtcrime.org/blog/telegram-crypto-challenge/ and go to more secure things like Threema or Textsecure!

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Why is this on top of HN? Because the original founder of Telegram was forced out of his company and his shares now belong to Russian oligarchs, so we all forget that this was a bad softwar with old crypto and claiming to be open source when there's a server side code that was never published and we all thik it's cool to give away all of your phone to Putin's friends.

Why Threema? It's proprietary, so you can't say if it's really more secure. Just use TextSecure and please, build some TextSecure federated services.

What do you mean by "encrypting group chats with end to end is not even possible"? Can not group chats be viewed as N*(N-1)/2 two-way chats for purposes of encryption?

he means not possible in Telegram

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