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Comment by thegeomaster | Hacker News Reader

While I commend initiatives like this, I don't think people should be so eager to make girls start coding. If your daughter shows no interest whatsoever after being exposed to coding, well, maybe it just isn't her cup of tea. It's the same with boys, of course. I know so much people who had been pressured into the same profession as their parents. Not all of them today love what they do.

We should be helping kids discover coding, not making them love it. I started hating chemistry and biology because I'm forced to study them in thorough detail in school and I have no interest in them--they're really just a pain in the ass. If someone has genuine talent for a particular area, you don't have to push them to explore it--you just make them aware of it and their natural curiosity will do the rest.

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We force kids to learn math even if they have no interest in it. Same with history, chemistry, biology, etc...

Forcing them to learn an intro to something is very different from forcing them into a career about that something. They don't know whether or not they like it if they've never tried it. This seems to be a campaign to get young girls to try it, nothing more.

Not just forcing them into a career about something, but e.g. being disappointed (or, more precisely, showing that in frobt of them) if they don't express interest. Of course you should get as much people you can to try out as much fields as possible to see if they fit. But in my case, I knew from the first two months of studying chemistry I don't like it, and likewise, from the day I wrote my first VBA Excel macro I knew I loved making computers do things.

I wish I remembered where the study was now, but I remember reading one which said that girls were naturally curious about STEM careers, up to around 12, when it starts to tail off dramatically. The theory was that societal issues begin to kick in that makes girls not want to: no role models, fellow students telling them it's for nerds and no girls do it, male jock stuff.

So the curiosity and talent is just drained out of them. That's the issue.

But as I don't have the study to hand, of course I could just be making this all up :/

I unfortunately can't find it either, but this month I heard a talk by Madeline Di Nonno, the CEO of the geena davis institute, cite that it is in 4th grade (~10yrs old) when there is a marked drop off in interest in STEM for the reasons you list. likely more at their site: seejane.org

> I wish I remembered where the study was now, but I remember reading one which said that girls were naturally curious about STEM careers, up to around 12, when it starts to tail off dramatically. The theory was that societal issues begin to kick in that makes girls not want to: no role models, fellow students telling them it's for nerds and no girls do it, male jock stuff.

Or it could be puberty.

I would find it incredibly hard to believe that sexual maturity has anything to do with an interest in STEM. Some kind of evidence would change my mind, however!

> I would find it incredibly hard to believe that sexual maturity has anything to do with an interest in STEM.

When you put it like that it sounds kind of strenuous, sure. Just like it sounds weird in isolation to say that being sexually maturing is often connected with irritability and rebellion and defiance against parental and authority figures, if it were not for the fact that this is an incredibly common phenomenon. Kids tend to change a lot as they approach their teen years - their body, behaviour and personality, not just their sexuality.

It doesn't have to be purely or directly about puberty - maybe it has to do with the teenage tendency of seeking acceptance and approval with certain groups, and I don't imagine that programming has enough mind-share with teenage girls to give much "cred" compared to other activities.

That's fair!

Don't similar societal issues also turn off many boys to STEM around the same age? I was definitely not in the larger, more popular bunch of kids starting around 10 years old.

Whatever the effect is, it's obviously stronger with girls given the ratio of adult men to adult women in STEM.

Which is the whole point of these sorts of programs, of course. The issue is not that some people don't go into STEM, the issue is that there is something about STEM that repels girls and women far more strongly than boys and men.

And since there is nothing inherent to STEM jobs that is in conflict with women's capabilities (doesn't require extremes of height, strength, weight, etc.), it seems likely that the issue is social factors, which can be changed with effort.

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