The 12 step process to download Microsoft SQL Server Express 2014 | Hacker News Reader

The 12 step process to download Microsoft SQL Server Express 2014

istartedsomething.com

88 pointsmartinml35 comments

Ok, now that you downloaded it, try successfully installing it.

The entire installation experience is a disaster both from the outside[0], and from the inside. If I remember correctly, guys from SQL Server Setup team had to use like 16 Product Keys to work around various, err, quirks, to put it mildly, of the underlying MSI "technology"

[0]: http://www.sqlservercentral.com/blogs/basits-sql-server-tips...

Honestly, SQL Server is one of the worst constructed and thought up installations I've ever seen - I don't think MSI had anything to do with it.

I've seen some bad installations, but whoever made that one should not be proud of that work.

Like I said, there are two sides of "badness".

The UI and UX is bad and it indeed doesn't have anything to do with the MSI.

The "undercovers" are appaling, this time all because of MSI. As a consequence, there's no way you can cleanly uninstall Microsoft SQL Server from the system.

I'm kinda interested in which pieces are MSI problems. There's a lot of strangeness in msi it generally it tends to work out pretty well unless you're doing weird stuff.

I'm not saying you're wrong - just interested!

The last time I tried to install it, it was a nightmare. This was a few years ago before they put helpful explanations of what different versions mean, so the first time I picked the wrong one. After installing it and realizing that I tried to get the right version but it wouldn't install. Some issue with the other version being installed, so I uninstalled the other version.

Only then I discovered you can't actually uninstall SQL Server. I mean, you can tell it to uninstall, it'll go through the motions and look like it uninstalled, but it won't actually uninstall. And you can't install another version until you uninstall the other version, which doesn't actually uninstall.

I think at this point I either had to go in and manually kill processes and delete files and registry entries, or I just reinstalled windows on my VM, I don't remember. I do remember it being a nightmare and once I got it working I vowed to never reformat or update again.

Just use Google or Bing to search for download SQL Server 2014 Express. The instant download page is the second result, no registration required.

The author's complaining about the marketing pages. Marketing pages are run by marketers, and marketers are trying to get your information. The real download pages (the ones in Google & Bing search results) are run by the technical teams who want to put the product in your hands.

(Author) Yep there is definitely an instant download page. Strange it's not the #1 result on Google. The #1 result is actually the thing as I've annotated.

> Yep there is definitely an instant download page. Strange it's not the #1 result on Google.

Not strange at all. The #1 page is heavily SEOd by the marketing SEO teams. The technical download pages don't have the luxury of full time SEO teams.

>Not strange at all.

What exactly is the purposes of a marketing team which prevents interested users from using your products?

There is no marketing to be done at that point - the market has already found you.

Think of them more as a sales team than a marketing one, they're trying to upsell you, and presumably it works in enough cases as they keep doing it.

Who are they marketing to though? Do they think someone is going to fall for this trap and call purchasing to get them to just go ahead and purchase it?

It'd only take one to justify it. And even zero isn't necessarily a negative outcome. From the point of view of someone whose performance is measured by the number of commercial SQL Server licenses sold, there's no distinction between someone who gets a copy of SQL Server Express and someone who gives up in frustration and grabs a copy of PostgreSQL instead.

To the company there's absolutely a distinction. And to someone who's playing the long game there's absolutely a distinction. But those are red herrings. This decision's probably being made by someone who's got an annual performance review to worry about.

The inevitable "Hacker News Devil's Advocate" post.

Yes, the OP is complaining about marketing pages, because he doesn't want to deal with marketing! He wants the danged download!

If there's something wrong with that, go for it, but having to use Google to get to a download page from a vendor shouldn't be the 'solution'.

> Yes, the OP is complaining about marketing pages, because he doesn't want to deal with marketing!

If you go to Shell.com to buy gas, you're going to be disappointed.

Quite a misleading analogy. If you go to <any site>.com to buy <anything that can't be downloaded or legally mailed to you>, you're going to be disappointed.

Should we have the same expectations for downloadable software that we do for gasoline (or any product that can't be downloaded or shipped)?

I say "no", but that's something we could disagree on.

Just recently experienced similar process for trying to download and install Microsoft Office for one of my relatives. First hit on Google was Microsoft Office web page which promised 30-day free trial, after that $10 monthly fee. I said "cool, let's try that".

The process was basically the same as OP explains for SQL Server, with the additional step to input credit card/paypal information. At that step, I simply canceled and after some more googling found another microsoft.com site that had MS Office download of 60-day trial without all the registration and payment information. However, Akamai installer was still needed (have no clue why Microsoft forces this, as it's instant spam/virus alert in many users' minds).

I guess some things never change!

http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/2008/06/24/full-text-an-...

It's great to see Gates so pissed at the state of affairs. It's obvious how all those little locally-smart-but-globally-stupid decisions can pile up into a giant pile of crap.

Not surprised in the slightest.

Finding anything on a Microsoft website is the biggest user experience pain I have ever encountered.

The fact that Google does not seem to index any of the Microsoft sites properly (which is probably Microsoft's fault in the first place) does not help at all. I will often search for a piece of software or an SDK on Google only to have the first hit be a still active page to an ancient version of the software in question; the newest version being buried somewhere on page two. (try and search for something like '.net download'. The first hit is 4.5, the second is 4.0, the newest is 4.5.2, the closest hit for that being number 6 and found on filehippo instead of an official Microsoft page)

That and the fact that Microsoft decides to arbitrarily and routinely change the name of everything they produce or deprecate software/SDKs/documentation without informing the user at all and naturally failing to point to the 'new and recommended' alternative are my biggest gripes.

Try figuring out what the latest service pack for any given product seems all but impossible.

At 1.1 GB SQL Express Advanced Version is the download you want. Because you can't easily add full text search etc after you've installed the basic version. I learnt that. That hard way.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=4229...

When BizSparks first came out, Microsoft was pumping it as a great way for startups to get free software to use.

I went over to the site and found what seemed like an endless stream of forms and questionnaires. It was completely kafkaesque. I gave up.

A year or two later they fixed it up, but Microsoft seems to default to creating complex, byzantine, and head-scratching layers of gunk between the people they're trying to help and the help they're providing. From what I can see it's not just SQL Server downloads. It's a corporate culture thing.

In the comments is a link to the direct download page: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=4229...

I'm not sure what which (any? all?) of those options I want, but it seems much closer to a decent user experience.

Yep, it also took me 2 steps:

  * search on Google
  * download the software on the page you are linking to.

But: I agree that it's strange you can't get there via de MS site directly.

Well, you can get there much faster by using the search bar at the top of their homepage.

What's the difference between

SQLEXPR_x86_ENU.exe

and

SQLEXPR32_x86_ENU.exe

It's the same for Sybase ASE/SQL Anywhere, DB2, Informix, etc. Several hoops to jump through, various registration details (I hit Forgot Password, everytime); big companies with several products and one massive site made of smaller sites to serve the needs of many people and products.

Never fear windows guys and gals, your favourite open source databases that are massively scalable are readily available, and nobody from sales will give you a call to discuss options:

* https://downloads.mariadb.org

* http://www.enterprisedb.com/downloads/postgres-postgresql-do...

(if I put my tongue any further into my cheek I am going to make a hole!)

I shudder from my college years when I had to install MSSQL server on my machine or VM's. It was a real test of patience, especially when I had the most absolute basic use-case. I just wanted to install it and have it listen to whatever defaults it used at the time.

I remember breathing a sigh of relief every time an installation completed, because it meant my 4 hour drudgery was over with.

It's a shame to see they haven't streamlined this process. MS should release a simple installer for students or hell, even people who want the defaults. For example, I love Postgres.app - granted not an official release - but for dev work it's phenomenal. I just double click the .app and it runs on default settings.

agree. a lot of dependencies too, which I know cant be helped but its still about as painful as root canal. some more, I remember the JIT debugger always giving me crap. other programs would accidentally trigger it and get killed, I'd always have to go into the registry and nuke it.

does know where I can get a VM with it preinstalled?

My beef with installing stuff like Visual Studio and SQL Server was that for each conceptual product installed, a dozen mostly inscrutable items got pooped in to the mix of the Add/Remove Programs GUI. Not sure what the state of things is these days.

The state of things today is just as bad if not worse.

My thinking is that the VS and SQL teams simply don't bother with the uninstall story. It's easier to bring up a fresh new server.

It's stupid, I know, but there are less step to do it even from microsoft.com

The trick is not to go to the SQL server page but goinf directly on the download Center. From microsoft.com you to Download->Download Center and then search for sql server 2014 express.

There you will find the one click download if you can guess what version you actually want.

Yeah, that does not improve the process that much.

    nuget install sqlserver-express

Would that work?

High time to switch to Postgresql, for its maturity, free price,simple and the newly-added JSON feature.

My good friends Usability and User-Friendliness just fall dead ...

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