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Comment by zghst | Hacker News Reader

I've calculated free education, it would basically collapse our government's finances. A College education is nice, but is not the sole step to ending to our economic and societal problems.

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My country - Poland - has completely free education, on every level - primary, middle,high school and every university are free. There are private ones which are paid but they are not very good and a degree from any of them is not worth much.

And yet despite free education(and free healthcare for everyone) we managed to be the ONLY country in the entire European Union to not enter into recession - while every other country was going into negative numbers,we managed to maintain positive growth.

So, if free education in the US would collapse your finances, then there is something seriously wrong with either the cost of the education(which is seriously inflated and disproportionate for what it's offering) or your government has wrong spending priorities.

I am considering creating puppet accounts just to upvote you more ;-)

Does the free education thing apply to international students? I know some EU countries only have that for locals and some (like norway) extend that privilege for international students. So where does Poland classify?

Not criticizing, just curious.

Apparently the free education thing applies sometimes:

http://iso.uni.lodz.pl/study-in-english/terms-of-studying-in...

Hmm... only EU residents (even if foreign to Poland)

To be fair, Poland is at a pretty low base - it's at less than half of Germany GDP per person. I would not be surprised if some companies moved work to Poland to save on labour instead of moving to China/Asia as most cost-cutting companies did in US.

That's fine and fair but don't forget that the US has the world's most advanced college education system and our government has been inflating the costs for a very long time. The cost to provide nearly 22 million citizens (to start, using the amount of those enrolled in US institutions currently) with free college education, using ASU tuition and fees calculates to $11,207, lets add on $3K for books, various class fees, covering the cost of those who might take excess tuition hours.

To cover the costs of just the students part will cost a whopping 298 Billion per year. This does not include the budgets already allocated to college institutions, etc, but should also note that we would be trading for $107B in student loans, and around $3B in grants, however the price is still more than double the current budget.

Also note that the US's government currently has a massive deficit and military spending will not be going anywhere soon as the US guarantees global stability and has many threats it needs to protect itself from seeing that it is the world's largest economy and most powerful nation as well. The US is also the guarantor of international law on the seas, in the air, and on ground, so much of the defense budget is more than pork. Maybe we could squeeze $100 billion in one year from defense from cutting costs, which will never happen if we are all realistic about the situation.

Also the US has $17 trillion dollars in debt which is not nothing to scoff at seeing that down the line we will have massive problems with entitlements and healthcare. Before we try to expand any program we must first tackle the current problems with the budget that is headed for collapse, then focus on paying down our debts, after which we can begin expanding programs.

If I understood the article correctly, a BSc costs $60k in tuition for an online course. I believe this to not cover required textbooks etc., which are likely more difficult to find in a library if you’re on the other side of the country.

In comparison, my BSc at TU Berlin cost me 6 * 240 €, which includes free access to Berlin’s public transport system. And while the financial state of Berlin is certainly far from perfect, I wouldn’t call it ‘collapsed’ (oh, and I get the impression that a college education in the US is more like a high school degree in Germany and not directly comparable to a proper university degree…any comments/similar observations?)

How about, instead of begging for what will be probably the most pointless debate on HN this whole week with innuendo, you put in a show of good faith with that question and find a credible source that suggests that a German high school diploma is equivalent to an American college degree?

Perhaps after you do that, it'll be a good idea for anyone to dignify that question.

Sure. Look at

https://webapp4.asu.edu/programs/t5/roadmaps/ASU00/LAPHYBA/n...

for the physics degree at Arizona state. It doesn’t seem to have a bachelor thesis or comparable work, it has about 50% stuff which has nothing whatsoever to do with physics (e.g. “Humanities, Fine Arts and Design (HU) AND Historical Awareness (H)”) and its physics courses seem end with things like “PHY 302: Mathematical Methods in Physics II“, which contains “complex variables”, “PHY 311: Classical Particles, Fields, and Matter II“, with “Faraday’s Law” and just a single QM course “PHY 314: Quantum Physics I” which only mentions wave mechanics, but makes no mention of perturbation theory, matrix mechanics or the standard Hilbert space approach with Dirac notation.

Especially the 50%-or-so of liberal arts, historical awareness etc. seem to be more appropriately placed in a high school degree than in a college degree, and things like complex variables shouldn’t require introduction in term five either.

The system in the US is different. You can get credits in various topics despite being enrolled in, say, Physics. In Germany, you're enrolled in one subject and have mostly predefined classes for that subject until you have something like a pre-diploma. This doesn't tell you anything about the depth of a class.

I studied for a year at ASU (computer science) and found there's not much difference between low-level courses and pre-diploma courses in Germany. A master's dregree in the US is more or less comparable to a diploma.

Also: Do you compare the former 13 years of school in Germany or the new 12-year period of school with the American education system?

American Degrees are meant to more general than a specific subject. You should do a certain amount credit in other subjects, before they let you pass.

> (oh, and I get the impression that a college education in the US is more like a high school degree in Germany and not directly comparable to a proper university degree…any comments/similar observations?)

Uh, wow?

I don't think that's correct. A bachelor's in the US (eight semesters of study) is roughly equivalent to a bachelor's in Germany (six semesters of study) plus the final year of secondary school (which lasts one year longer in Germany).

I get the impression that a college education in the US is more like a high school degree in Germany

You got the wrong impression. Not a little wrong. A lot wrong. The US has many top-flight schools. And I'm not talking about the Ivies, either. I'm talking about small schools that excel by every authentic educational metric (student-teacher ratio, research excellence, undergrads who go on to graduate work and PhDs, etc).

> it would basically collapse our government's finances

My guess is, the comparatively extremely high military budget [0] is the actual culprit.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_...

Putting aside entirely the fact that the cost of education in the US is rising at an unhealthy rate, and has been for some time, largely due to profit-driven education, about half of our national budget goes to wars.

THAT is what is collapsing our government's finances. Sending young people off to die, largely protecting corporate interests, and when they return not only can they not afford education, but they have a 1+ year waiting list for basic health care.

> I've calculated free education, it would basically collapse our government's finances.

Free, useless education is costly, but in the long run, useful education works to the benefit of governments.

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