E.P.A. to Seek 30 Percent Cut in Carbon Emissions
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
Lower economic growth, better try your bets elsewhere because unless you can suddenly remove a third of the population from the planet we ain't going anywhere but up.
Energy production will simply shift to what is the most affordable and don't expect it to ever become less than today. If anything our energy expenditures will continue to climb. The only change will be how we create it. When cheaper energy becomes available expect usage to dramatically spike, if anything our biggest threat won't be carbon, it will be heat; waste heat.
As for the issue with Wall Street: it would be good to create a market and get Wall Street involved. The politics surrounding Wall Street's involvement in say oil is classic populist dreck: they hate paying more for gas, so they blame "oil speculators" rather than acknowledging the oil traders are just helping the market price-in the fact we're in an era where new oil discoveries come in a firm that's expensive to exploit.
You can look at the EU carbon market's total failure as an example. It's a cap system, where the price collapsed almost immediately, and so to date it has had zero effect of any sort [0]. The cap right now is way above what the market actually wants. It's useless.
The opposite -- price overshoots because of a too tight cap + demand inelasticity -- could also be a really bad thing. Both directly from the pain it causes, and indirectly from the predictable political backlash, which would screw up something else in a new & more creative way.
"I don't see any objective way of setting such taxes,"
How about: estimate the economic damage of a marginal kg of CO2 (external cost), and set the tax equal to that? [0]
As an order-of-magnitude guess: [total climate change damage] / [total CO2 emitted], both discounted to present dollars.
Not an economist.
You're a funny one.
1. They set the cap far too high; and 2. They did not allow banking between phases.
They correct the first error in the second phase of the system. For the second, they still allocated too many permits but the economic collapse in Europe led to far lower output than had been expected, and for a time declining confidence in the future existence of the EU led to a collapse in confidence in the long-term existence of the policy, making "banking" the credits for future abatement less attractive.
Finally, the cap is a "backstop" mechanism, which exists to ensure that the marginal abatement takes place, with inframarginal abatement taking place through, e.g., the Renewables Directive and the Large Combustion Directive as well as very high fuel taxes among many other mechanisms the EU uses to drive renewable energy and consumption efficiency.
The cap worked perfectly from a qualitative perspective - there is a highly visible price on carbon with complete capital market instruments available (forwards, futures, options, etc.) to give long-term investors what they need to make investment decisions. It has been the quantitative parameters that have not been ratcheted high enough. You'd have the same issues with a tax.
Both forms of pricing carbon can work, but both need good design.
One is that a cap-and-trade program acknowledges the status quo. There are a lot of businesses that are currently emitting CO2, and saying, "Surprise! Big tax for you!" will generate enormous political resistance. If I understand cap-and-trade programs rightly, we'd start out by giving those businesses the right to keep emitting, but let them sell the right if they aren't using it. Suddenly they have choices, turning the response from, "Rawr! Tax bad!" to "Hm, can I get a competitive advantage from this?"
The second is that in cap-and-trade, the right price for carbon flows not from government fiat, but from market outcomes. What's the right level for a carbon tax to drive the right amount of reduction 15 years out? Hard to say. Cap and trade lets us fix what we care about, the reductions, and then lets market mechanisms work out how to do that most economically.
The third comes from the combination of the first two. The US right is fervently anti-tax, and has been for decades. They are, however, pro-market, at least nominally. Plus, Wall Street loves anything market-like, as it gives them an opportunity to make a buck. A carbon tax will be fought hard by the people facing it before, during, and after. But markets mean winners and losers, and the opportunity for a lot of capitalist reindeer games.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1749-6632.2010....
It will be pleasant to have less of these types of plants in operation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_Scherer
And this country will be just a little bit greener knowing, we don't need to have trains crossing the country 24/7 from Wyoming just to keep the boilers running.
>>> And this country will be just a little bit greener knowing, we don't need to have trains crossing the country 24/7 from Wyoming just to keep the boilers running.
We will have to get the energy from somewhere. The only viable alternative on that scale that I can see is nuclear energy, but given current panic mood about it, does not seem very likely. If not, are we ready to seriously cut energy consumption and accept the accompanying life standards drop? I don't think so.
A cursory reading of the literature would suggest that American Lung Association, Natural Resource Defense Counsel, and Physicians for Social Responsibility all concurred that coal burning does impact our respiratory system.
See: http://www.lung.org/assets/documents/healthy-air/toxic-air-r...
And:
http://www.psr.org/assets/pdfs/coals-assault-chapter-3.pdf
Your second argument is a bit like saying, well we have to get nicotine from somewhere. If not smoking, what else will people do to get their fix. Are we really ready to give up our nicotine habit?
A lot of people did give up smoking once they figured out it was killing them. If people realize the same thing about coal, I suspect there will be a much faster and stricter set of regulations coming into force.
As for the problem of where to get energy, natural gas is a more efficient and cleaner burning alternative that you didn't mention. Of course if that gas is delivered via fracking there are a whole lot of other problems with ground water pollution. So the energy mix needs to change and it needs to be found in a less impactful fashion.
No it does not. Human organism has ways of producing substances that work with the same receptors that respond to nicotine. Thus, there is no biological need to introduce nicotine to the organism. More correct analogy would be vitamines, proteins, minerals and other substances that we commonly call "food". If you want to give up food, it would be reasonable to ask, how you replace energetic and nutritional needs of the organism? Modern economy has energetic needs which need to be satisfied if you want to have modern economy. Either you go back to pre-industrial economy and subsistence on the constant brink of starvation, or you produce a lot of energy. There's no other way. The question is how you are going to produce it.
>>> natural gas is a more efficient and cleaner burning alternative that you didn't mention.
As carbon emissions are the problem being discussed, and burning gas produces carbon emissions, naturally I did not consider it as a true alternative with respect to producing energy while reducing carbon emissions.
Of course SLC is an extreme example, most cities never see inversions like that, but it is certainly the case there that probably the largest contributor, and far and away the main source of power, is coal emissions.
Almost half of that mercury comes from coal emissions.
That's an entire type of food being significantly contaminated across the planet. And that's just one of the many nasty things emitted by coal burning.
It is not at all an exaggeration to say that the entire planet is affected by burning coal.
There's a lot. From a health perspective, PM is way worse for human health than carbon dioxide. Here's two EPA fact sheets and a well-cited article:
http://www.epa.gov/airquality/particulatematter/health.html
http://www.epa.gov/region7/air/quality/pmhealth.htm
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969799...
> We will have to get the energy from somewhere. The only viable alternative on that scale that I can see is nuclear energy, but given current panic mood about it, does not seem very likely. If not, are we ready to seriously cut energy consumption and accept the accompanying life standards drop? I don't think so.
Easy answer: natural gas. It's already a bigger source of electricity than nuclear, and it'll inevitably play a large role in the grid in the future as it neatly solves the dispatch problem (renewables can't really be controlled, but NG plants can be dispatched at a moments notice to make up for lost capacity).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_Unite...
- gas is CH4 (four hydrogens for every carbon). Oil is approximately CH2 (in reality, it's slightly higher than two). Coal is approximately CH.
- a CH bond has about 410 kJ / mol; a CC bond has about 350 kJ / mol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond-dissociation_energy)
- thus, you can calculate approximately how much energy is stored in each of the above fossils per mole of carbon dioxide:
- methane = 4CH = 1640 kJ / mol CO2
- petrol = 2CH + CC = 1170 kJ / mol CO2
- coal = CH + CC = 760 kJ / mol CO2
This is obviously a gross simplification, but hopefully you'll see the outline of why gas is much cleaner than coal. Methane, since it's a gas, also burns much cleaner than liquids or solids since you can better mix the fuel with oxygen, so methane tends to produce much less particulate matter, soot, and other products of incomplete combustion.
EDIT: spenrose below has a great point about uncombusted methane in the atmosphere. Methane is a NASTY greenhouse gas, so it's absolutely worth taking into account how natural gas production affects methane levels in the atmosphere. Namely, there was a worrying metastudy a few months ago about how natural gas production is quite leaky, which has nontrivial greenhouse gas considerations: http://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/february/methane-leaky-ga...
EDIT: Direct link http://chge.med.harvard.edu/resource/full-cost-accounting-li...
Interestingly, the impact on Appalachia, $75 billion per year, is substantially more than the GDP of West Virginia ($57 billion per year). The economic return of coal mining in Appalachia is very probably net negative.
http://www.nexteraenergyresources.com/pdf_redesign/Full%20Co...
Interestingly, most of the external costs they estimate aren't CO2 emissions. Table 4 on page 92. In the "median" case, it's 9.3 c/kWh air pollutants, 4.4 c/kWh public health burden from Appalachian mining, and then 3.1 c/kWh from climate effects. In the "high" case climate goes up to 10.2 c/kWh, still less than half of the 26.9 c/kWh total.
If coal power costs $0.1/kWh, and solar/wind/whatever costs $0.15/kWh, then you would only need a $0.05/kWh equivalent carbon tax to shift investment in research and infrastructure. Or really even just the promise of such a tax in five years. And it is fine for the tax to gradually approach $0.2/kWh equivalent, because by that point the only applications using coal would be specialized and could afford it without wrecking the economy.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7829683
TL;DR
EU carbon is trading at $6.88/tonne. Working back from an enrollment mailer I found that TVA's green power program prices it at $42/tonne (in terms of lbs of CO2 emissions avoided by purchasing blocks of renewable generation).
Quite separate from CO2, there are NOX wet/dry scrubbers and flue gas desulfurization units (removal of SO2). While having a very helpful large reduction in fine particulate (PM2.5) and ozone downwind health impacts (SO2 and NOX form PM2.5 and O3 downwind), it unfortunately does not remove CO2 emissions.
In talking to power companies, my guess is that natural gas is being switched out for coal for many reasons, some more subtle. In part due to new PM2.5 and ozone regulations, in part because in some years it has been cheaper than coal due to new extraction techniques (fracking), and in part because it is easier to dispatch natural gas plants (ramp up and down) to meet electricity demand or high variance renewable energy generation like solar and wind (large spikes in generation).
[1] http://sequestration.mit.edu/tools/projects/index_capture.ht...
The costs of coal are higher than they were before and are growing. This is a direct result of government regulation. The other problem is that these regulations and the continual call for more is causing a great deal of market uncertainty, which is also driving up costs (not just for the coal but for equipment). Natural gas is currently not in the same position, it is cheaper and less regulated (no mining regulations/legislation). Further, because there has been so much drilled for there is a surplus (supply and demand ==> gas costs are lower). This is mostly because of the lack of good, viable, stable export terminals. So when some terminals open in the future we will see higher natural gas prices.
I actually agree with you on several points. Agreed that the economics are uncertain, and agreed that scrubbing is very useful, and is definitely worth the cost vs. a full switch over to natural gas (but that doesn't ignore the fact that a switch to natural gas happens for other reasons). And I agree with you that natural gas has higher variance (historically at the least), and higher future expected prices, particularly with exports.
[1] http://www.georgiapower.com/about-energy/energy-sources/natu...
1. Your intuition about emissions being higher now is wrong. For NOx and SOx: http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=15611 CO2: http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases/co2.html
2. The recession messed with a lot of energy and consumption so that the years from 2008-2012 or so are something of anomalies.
3. There have been significant rollbacks and cuts to getting datasets complete. It used to be we were only a year or two behind in lots of the published federal data. I've found it to be far more scattershot today, and sometimes just cross my fingers and hope they have managed to stay up to date. That said, the EIA has mostly managed to stay on top of their annual publications.
4. Natural gas prices bottomed out a couple years ago, and we'll have a glut of it for a while, keeping prices much lower than they were in the early 2000s.
5. Coal plants are getting replaced with natural gas combined cycle because of the fuel costs, and also because of new regulations on the new MATS stuff (also in the link above).
6. "Clean" coal has mostly been a bust. Duke Indiana's been trying to get their gasification plant to full capacity for a while, and cost ovverruns has resulted in them asking for rate increases. Also, carbon capture still isn't up to snuff, and underground gasification never took off.
http://common-resources.org/2014/2005-vs-2012-in-epas-propos...
And here's a good general breakdown of the proposed rule.
http://www.vox.com/2014/6/4/5779052/how-to-figure-out-which-...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-31/obama-step-forward-...
And let's not get any illusions. One of the main real changes in the world that make this possible is outsourcing of production to China, where instead of a mix of oil, nuclear and coal, goods will be produced with nearly exclusively coal. Obama is not an idiot and knows this.
His voters seemingly are not so aware.
So what it should really say is something along the lines of "in an attempt to improve earbon emission numbers in the US, the EPA doubles worldwide carbon emissions, in cooperation with it's European counterpart, moving the emissions where they are not counted on his report card".
Sure 300 million Americans are currently using a lot of energy but we're going to be much smaller part of the problem by 2030.
I suspect that at that point, since many countries will be experiencing the effects of climate change full-force (especially the Chinese), there will be economic treaties which will tax according to emissions per capita or a similar metric.
Oh, wait. Not politically viable? It should be: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/deaths-per-twh-by-energy-so...
As for Vermont Yankee, the operating license was renewed in 2011 and remains valid until 2032, but Entergy said that a mix of price controls and economic inefficiency for a small single-reactor design made it uneconomical to continue operations: http://www.entergy.com/news_room/newsrelease.aspx?NR_ID=2769
Vermont's senate voted against a future renewal of the plant's license, but since this wouldn't have been an issue for almost two decades I don't think it's that big of a deal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_Yankee_Nuclear_Power_Pl...
The fact is that the federal government is putting its money where its mouth is as regards Georgia, and with the President about to announce a target of cutting US CO2 emissions by 30%, the door is open for other nuclear projects. A bigger problem for the industry has been the fall in power prices due to the huge surplus of natural gas that currently obtains in the US, with no sign of decline any time soon.