Comment by logicallee | Hacker News Reader

Comment by logicallee | Hacker News Reader

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I've flagged your post for your last sentence before your parentheses. Here are the forum guidelines:

http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

"Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face to face conversation. When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. E.g. "That is an idiotic thing to say; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them."

As for trolling, at the moment I have four and a half times your karma and am engaging in civil discourse. Try to do the same.

You missed a serious implication with the fact that I'm writing about 'something else'. Which is that what I'm writing about has nothing to do with your language wars. Complaining that I would be wrong if I weren't writing about something else is similar to complaining that an obituary you have read shows extremely shoddy reporting, since a) you're alive, b) they got your birth date, gender, occupation, family history, professional history, and name wrong. They're clearly writing about someone else. Well, yes. I'm actually not part of your language war.

I actually haven't made a single claim about Perl, nor rehashed any arguments.

I explained what features I think a totally new language should have, and that the Perl community should start branding a totally new language as Perl, without starting out from Perl in any way. (As radically new as the iPad is to an Apple ][). It's my opinion.

Without any compatibility or sense of being Perl in any other sense, just like there is zero continuity or compatibility between an Apple ][ and an iPad.

Yes, I agree with you that Perl 6 is a different language in the same family. Perl 6 isn't a candidate for the language that I think should bear Perl branding in the future.

In summary, I like the Perl community and want it to work on some other language and call it Perl. I've given a high-level description of some of the features that I think such a language should have.

My main point is that you could brand anything you want as Perl. It doesn't have to still be Perl to be called Perl. If you disagree, that's fine, but you can't disagree with me for not writing about what you would like me to.

>>I've flagged your post for your last sentence before your parentheses.

Which were that you made wild claims about stuff you obviously know nothing.

>>I actually haven't made a single claim about Perl

:-)

In the same comment you make explicit claims about what is part of "real" Perl and what is not:

>>My main point is that you could brand anything you want as Perl. It doesn't have to still be Perl to be called Perl.

(Quite fun, considering that programmable language extensions have been on CPAN (/in the Perl binary) for lots of years!)

Originally, I reacted to this claim about what is "real" Perl:

>>even though the modern language has [..] standard computer science constructs like OOP and Unicode etc that require coding against a different abstraction than Perl.

That is not [ignorant] claims about Perl?! (There are more examples.)

Again:

The Perl Unicode support is one of the best of the scripting languages -- and todays std OO (Moo[se]) is arguably better than the other scripting languages.

And OO has been in Perl 5 since the start (1990s).

TL;DR: 1. TRIVIALLY bad claims. 2. Long messages without touching the bad claims. 3. "I never made any claims at all".

In case it was an honest mistake, I was referring to "So go troll on some subject you know". Your way of parsing my reference as referring to your second sentence is extremely bizarre, though possible if you were hasty.

If every variable is a reference to an object, that would be a different abstraction from Perl. "The modern language" refers to my hypothetical language which has nothing to do with Perl.

My entire post refers to something hypothetical, which is why you state that it was written about 'something else'.

We are not arguing, and I'm not making any claims about Perl.

I am talking about a hypothetical language in which writing any normal Perl fails with a syntax error.

>>In case it was an honest mistake, I was referring

You wrote "I've flagged your post for your last sentence before your parentheses."

Which was what I discussed. (I did have a 2nd parenthesis, too.)

>>I'm not making any claims about Perl.

I quoted you twice as saying two old language features, which are probably best among the std scripting languages, goes against being Perl. At least one of those features is from the 1990s.

That might mean something different than making claims, but you have carefully not touched it, despite multiple opportunities (while being both called "troll" and down voted over that).

I've flagged this as well, for your argumentative style, specifically that you write:

>despite multiple opportunities while being both called "troll" and down voted over that

This style of discussion is not normal here. Nobody but you has called me a troll, because that goes against our community guidelines. Please read the guidelines.

Until then you will not receive more replies from me. If you pay a bit of attention you will note that this community is much more civil than you may be used to from elsewhere.

("But why??" - I hope if you give it some thought you can appreciate the broader context that there is insight to be gained from discussion, as shown by congresses of minds from Athens to the Royal Society, from the Continental Congress to the National Academy of Sciences, all of which have shown that amazing things can be borne of civil discourse.

Whether you think you have anything to gain from anyone else's opinion is up to you to decide. Engaging in name-calling, cheap argumentative tricks (as repeated here), and willful misinterpreting is not up to you.

Please read the guidelines and contribute or ask honest questions, rather than attack. You are very welcome to express a differing opinion, of course, as long as it is done in civil terms.)

Sigh, I'll just note that you missed yet another opportunity to explain your strange statements that some of Perl 5's older and stronger features are not Perly.

(You even quoted part of my comment where I discussed that.)

But it is informative with indignation, while repeatedly refusing to discuss criticism.

On consideration, this was interesting.

You are called troll because of stupid statements on basic points.

You refuse to talk about WHY you are stamped a troll in multiple comments -- instead you complain in big blocks of text about impoliteness!

This is a common troll strategy, but does it really work?

Do a causal reader miss that you refuse to talk about why you are called troll -- and just see two people complaining about each others?

Edit: So your smoke screen of complaints will change my behavior. :-) The next troll with your strategy will just get a note that he refuses to touch why he is called troll + link.

I did talk about why you (and only you, a user with 239 karma, less than a quarter of mine) called me a troll - it's because you don't understand our guidelines and civil discourse. This style of discourse is frowned upon by this community and YC employs a full-time moderator (dang) just to make sure nobody like you is doing this where anyone is reading. He and others are doing a really good job, and you won't see a single comment like yours in any thread. If you have any questions about the comments I actually made you can write politely to yc tech mgr @ gmail.com

I am just going to note that in five comments you carefully avoid discussing how I motivate that you are a bad troll: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7809359

Trying to avoid that is admitting I am correct.

(See my declaration on how to handle trolls in GP.)

I did carefully address your statement. Follow up by email if you have any real questions.

The fourth time I write this, THEN you claim to have answered!

Strange that you forgot to link, troll...

I am just going to note that in five^H^H^H^H six^H^H^H seven comments you carefully avoid discussing how I motivate that you are a bad troll: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7809359

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