Comment by MBCook | Hacker News Reader

Comment by MBCook | Hacker News Reader

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Insulting iOS users is not a productive way to start a discussion.

1) It's fair to let people choose a different app (I know many people really want this on iOS), but I think his complaint is valid. There are many situations where it's completely unclear to a new user why they should use app X over Y for photo management/SMS/etc. To ask them before they've even used the app the first time nearly ensures they're not ready to make that decision. Sensible defaults and perhaps delaying the prompting until the device notices the user uses an alternate app a couple of times may be a better way to handle this.

3) Why should it matter if my HTC One came from a T-Mobile store or not? The fact that they behave differently (and especially that T-Mobile's support isn't prepared for that) is clearly an issue. I think the voicemail note is telling. How many people, upon buying a new phone, would think "I need to go download a special app to get my voicemail working"?

4) HTC took something that worked fine and made it more confusing. That's clearly a design mistake.

5) If something doesn't work reliably, that's a design issue. Especially if it used to work.

> But I stopped reading past that [...] I only saw "iOS is right" in some places.

That's not what I saw. Rorschach test for your preference for Android/iOS perhaps?

Insulting iOS users? Where do you get that from? Users are users - they have preferences. Some prefer simple and not having to think and some prefer tweaking, suprises and flexibility. If I had said "stupid" iOS users then it would be an insult.

1) No his complaint isn't valid. There are sensible defaults - it only becomes a choice if you install another app that does the same things. In this case Gallery is built in and Google Photos is well Google's. It's not as if every app has a choice on launch. And how exactly are you going to solve the problem of user not having tried one or the other if the user isn't willing to choose one? Throw him a training video for both apps? That sounds even worse.

3) The whole idea of Android is different things for different people. You don't go buy an $699 unlocked phone and use it as a Specifically Optimized for Carrier X phone. It is an unlocked phone designed to run on many carriers as possible. If you need to download an app or two for further customization that's not really a big problem. If it is, then you should've bought something from T-Mobile store that they've customized for you. Wanting it both ways while pretending to be a simpleton user doesn't warrant any discussion.

4) If you need a certain type of lock screen and aren't willing to install one - you should at least look at the phones in a retail store and pick the one with the right lock screen - you can find a lot I bet. Complaining about HTC having confusing lock screen is contradictory to entire point of how Android works.

5) Yeah, sure - but at least it works. What other better options do you have - not having it? That's a worse solution. But yes, Google can do some tightening up on both Copy/Paste and Back button.

> That's not what I saw

So you saw him giving a solution or two that is not "do it iOS way - including don't have a back button"?

> Unreasonable expectations and little knowledge or inclination to try things out - sounds like perfect iOS user to me

Don't play dumb.

Unreasonable expectations - Buying an unlocked, generic, carrier unspecific phone and expecting it to work great out of box on T-Mobile. Little knowledge or inclination - not sure which one, but of course he had either little knowledge not to buy unlocked phone OR little inclination to find out that TMobile Voicemail app in Play store. What's wrong about what I said? And people can be that way - I am hardly insulting him for it - just saying not an user that'd do well under the given circumstances.

How is it unreasonable to buy a phone and expect it to work? Anything less than that is either the carrier screwing up a phone that works fine or HTC screwing up by not having a phone that works without the carrier's help. It is bad user experience, which is what his post is all about

It worked - I have always used unlocked phones and you do get voicemail notifications without doing anything further. (There are still possibilities of issues if you bought European model it won't have US Carrier's APN Settings etc. but that's hardly reasonable to expect.) He wanted T-Mobile VoiceMail app to be bundled with it and also WiFi calling - both are carrier specific features which would have worked fine if he would have bought the right phone -T-Mobile HTC One. Expecting that to work on an unlocked, carrier unspecific phone designed to be LCD on as many GSM carriers is nothing but unreasonable.

>He wanted T-Mobile VoiceMail app to be bundled

no, he wanted voicemail. T-Mobile decided to require a different app.

> It took me forever to realize that I had to download the T-Mobile voicemail app to get my voicemail

That's all he says. Nowhere in the post he says voicemail didn't work - he implies he wanted an app to get his Voicemail like iOS. The regular voicemail stuff just works on any stock Android GSM phone - you get a notification for new ones and you can tap that or long press 1 to go to carrier voice mail box for your old VMEs.

He never says like iOS. you are inserting that. he says he never realized that, in order to get his voicemail (and i read that as to get it in any way shape or form), he had to download t mobiles app.

>He never says like iOS. you are inserting that.

Nitpicking much? iOS started the Visual Voice Mail thing. No GSM, non-iPhone user is used to using Visual Voice Mail App - they pretty much tap the VME notification or long dial 1 to get to voice mail - that still works on any unlocked Android with any GSM carrier.

Voicemail shouldn't be a carrier specific experience. Is there something so differentiated about the t-mobile voicemail experience vs. the verizon voice mail experience? Shouldn't there just bean android voice mail experience that the carrier can direct at their back end as appropriate?

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that a core feature (like voice mail) should work out of the box with no additional installations on my part.

The author implies he wanted an app to get his Voicemail like iOS. Nowhere does he say VoiceMail didn't work. The regular voicemail stuff just works on any stock Android GSM phone - you get a notification for new ones and you can tap that or long press 1 to go to carrier voice mail box for your old VMEs. I have that working on 5 different unlocked phones at the least on 3 different carriers. If you want an app - yeah you gotta find it in app store if your phone wasn't a carrier branded version - the app needs to do carrier specific things to get your voice messages and present you a list.

> Unreasonable expectations and little knowledge or inclination to try things out - sounds like perfect iOS user to me

This you don't recognize as an insult? I'll bet you're a constant delight to your acquaintances.

I replied to a similar comment above. I sincerely wasn't insulting him. I was just pointing out that iOS/iPhone is a perfect choice for people who don't like to be bothered with these type of things. I might just change the wording given how many found it offensive.

My issue is not that I abhor choice. Choice is fine and sometimes good. My issue was that I was confronted with these choices out of the box. And the impetus for this was Google's business choices at the expense of a seamless user experience.

> You don't go buy an $699 unlocked phone and use it as a Specifically Optimized for Carrier X phone.

The point is you don't need to with an iPhone. I bought my 5C used and unlocked. No problems hopping onto AT&T with it. It's not "optimized" because it shouldn't be. The carrier is just "a series of tubes". I don't want to buy an AIO, TMobile or AT&T phone. I bought a MotoX because I wanted a MotoX.

You are constantly asserting that it didn't work - I am telling you voice mail just works on any GSM Android unlocked phone on most carriers in the US. You keep conflating VoiceMail not working with VoiceMail not working visually through the app, like iOS has done since day 1. It clearly is not the case - again VME just works in the way most GSM users use it. "Visual" voicemail doesn't work until you download an carrier specific app if your phone is not carrier branded.

I mentioned it one time. I guess that's some sort of definition of "constantly". ;-)

I'm not confusing anything though. I just have an expectation that I won't be dialing into some arcane menu system to retrieve just the messages I want. I haven't done so for almost 7 years. I don't pay too much attention to other's habits, but I haven't noticed anyone else do that for almost as long.

Visual Voicemail is the only voicemail I'd bother with. I'd guess that's pretty typical these days. I've even gone months after switching carriers having not even called the carrier to get voicemail set up because who leaves voicemails anyways but telemarketers?

Maybe it's different outside the US or in developing markets with a lot of feature-phones. I wouldn't know. This is just my own experience in DFW.

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