Hacker News Reader

Comment by jdp23 | Hacker News Reader

Yes, as a male, I see this behavior regularly.

If you're not seeing it, it's statistically highly unlikely that you're not coming into contact with it. Reading and understanding feminist perspectives can help you become more observant. Hacker News provides plenty of opportunities for practice identifying hostile-to-women comments.

If you're not hearing about it through word of mouth, then it could be that you don't talk to a lot of women in tech, or don't talk to them about these issues, or you aren't fully hearing what they're saying. It could also be that they don't feel comfortable in discussing them with you. Look at your language and behavior and think about what could be sending unintentional messages that cause people to steer clear from this discussion. How many can you spot in this post, and in your reply to Anil?

View on HN

If, in posting something out of concern, and in trying to understand something better, I still am going to get chastised for "doing it wrong", then it really is an uphill battle.

It is an uphill battle to become aware of the blinders and unconscious habits we all have. I was making suggestions (not chastising) assuming that you really are trying to understand, and are willing to make the effort even if it's challenging.

This uphill battle is becoming easier and easier, as evidenced by how many men are coming forward here to share their experiences and support. If you feel chastised, it's likely because, in the face of an overwhelming amount of data and evidence, your statements read in the vein of incredulity and dismissiveness rather than 'concern' and 'understanding.'

> If you're not seeing it, it's statistically highly unlikely that you're not coming into contact with it.

May I ask on what evidence you base this assertion? Note that this is a much stronger claim than just "harassment happens"; you're claiming that, more likely than not, it is also happening in my organization.

Most women in tech I know have multiple examples of stuff like the authors describe happening to them. Multiple guys in this thread confirm that yes, it happens and is observable.

Remember that the authors weren't only talking about harassment. And of course that doesn't mean it happens in your organization, but you can also see and come into contact with it elsewhere -- conferences, networking events, online discussions, etc.

Why is them confirming that it happens more significant than the ones who confirm they don't see it happen?

Because, putting it shortly, saying "I didn't see it happen" is too close to saying "I didn't see it happen, therefore it doesn't exist".

If an overwhelming majority of observers report something happening frequently, and a relatively-small percentage report not seeing it, then what would you conclude?

That said, I'm not sure I can remember the last time a woman told me she doesn't see it happen.

> Most women in tech I know have multiple examples of stuff like the authors describe happening to them. Multiple guys in this thread confirm that yes, it happens and is observable.

To reiterate, what you've demonstrated is that there are N anecdotes of sexual harassment in the industry, for some N > 0. (Set aside M anecdotes of men and women who have not personally encountered such a thing.) You have not demonstrated that "it's statistically highly unlikely that you're not coming into contact with it."

Let's keep this discussion factual and avoid inflammatory hyperbole, please.

True, I haven't absolutely proven my point. What's your evidence disproving it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

I've worked with women my whole life in tech. I sit right next to one currently and she's an awesome talent and from what I can tell is an equal member of the team. I do see some passive things like their opinions not being heard as much and I think that has almost as much to do with how they speak (not with confidence) as it does their gender. I try to make a point to listen more carefully and help promote the ideas of my female coworkers when they are good. I've never seen nor heard of any of the more overt things mentioned in the blog post like being groped or anything of the sort. Probably the worst I've heard is the guys lamenting that there are no women on the team and commenting that they can't find women interviewees that have the skills required for the type of project we were doing.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com