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Comment by archagon | Hacker News Reader

Frankly, I've yet to see a truly stunning game pass me by, either in the indie space or on the App Store (where this problem has existed for a little while now). Market saturation causes mediocre games to become buried. The obvious solution is to not make mediocre games. I'm still convinced the cream will rise to the top.

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I don't mean this snarkily: how would you know if a truly stunning game had passed you by? If it'd been out for a long time before you heard about it? That wouldn't seem to account for the possibility of really great stuff passing everybody by and never achieving critical mass.

I agree, in part at least. Additionally, one of the things I've noticed is that good stuff is often made great by being successful, which can be a bit of a paradox. Also, a lot of games that people really like are not (or weren't when they first came out) "really stunning".

Because we tried to look for them? I bought a gift card for my ipad and I have no idea how to spend it. Most games on it are bad (I'm tempted to say all of them, but I liked The Room). Same thing for PC indie games (which is why Jeff's point is absurd, more games doesn't mean more sale, and if Humble Bundles are of any indication, indie's quality are declining).

But I'd love to be proven wrong.

Did DEVICE 6 pass you by?

On the iPad in particular, you might try https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/10000000/id544385071?mt=8. It's a mission-based real-time puzzle game. The gameplay is pretty enjoyable and you can clear stuff while dramatically under-leveled so it doesn't become too easy when you get good at it.

You could also pick up a CAVE game, but it would be by no means indie...

On the PC front I am familiar with more options, but it really depends on what you like. I play mostly shmups, puzzle games, and platformers, which happen to be really easy genres to make indie games in. Over the last few years I've enjoyed Jamestown, Thomas Was Alone, Electronic Super Joy, Antichamber, Super Hexagon, and a lot of games that are distributed for free in places like http://www21.atwiki.jp/iwannabethewiki/pages/283.html

For anyone into CAVE-like games, please give Danmaku Unlimited 2 a try. One of the best shmups on the platform, beautiful, made by one dude.

You're right, I obviously can't prove it, but here's one sample point. I subscribe to an RSS feed of iOS apps that have recently become free. Many of these are unsuccessful games that are trying to attract some attention. Some of them are interesting — maybe even good — but I don't think I've ever seen any as beautiful and polished as, say, Monument Valley or Dextris (just to name two of the current iOS darlings). On the other hand, occasionally I spot a game in the App Store new releases that looks really cool. If it captures my attention, chances are it'll soon get mentioned on TouchArcade or on Twitter.

Absolutely. Dwarf Fortress is a fun example of what's possible when you make a genuinely great, innovative game while putting zero effort into marketing or accessibility. There will always be a market for exceptional games like that. There'd be a much bigger one if he could get a proper GUI together, but Tarn Adams seems perfectly content with his modest income.

If you're a business person, games are probably a poor investment. If you're an independent creator, it's still one of the most self-sustainable forms of art.

Exactly. Games need to be approached as art because they are art. And most of the common rules of success in art apply there.

>I'm still convinced the cream will rise to the top. Frankly, I've yet to see a truly stunning game pass me by, either in the indie space or on the App Store.

This is like saying, "If anyone was making great music it would be at the top of the Billboard charts and I'd hear it on the radio on the way to work." or "If anyone was writing good books, they'd be outselling Dan Brown and I'd see it in the supermarket isle, so I guess nobody is."

If you are into music you can find great music. Same with games. But you will have to do at least a little looking.

Yeah for what it's worth I'm playing more amazing indie games than ever - Monument Valley and Nidhogg two recent faves.

Bastion. Bastion is amazing.

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