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Comment by jpatokal | Hacker News Reader

Came here to post this. I think this is the key bit:

It’s almost always people whose lamented busyness is purely self-imposed: work and obligations they’ve taken on voluntarily, classes and activities they’ve “encouraged” their kids to participate in. They’re busy because of their own ambition or drive or anxiety, because they’re addicted to busyness and dread what they might have to face in its absence.

There was another article (which I can't find now) that summarized this even further to state that "I'm so busy" is actually code for "I'm a self-important asshole"... and there's a grain of truth to do this. "Can you help me with X? Can you do Y?" "Oh, I'd love to help, but I'm sooo busy doing other stuff that's more important than you!"

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"To me, it's a good idea to always carry two sacks of something when you walk around. That way, if someone asks you 'Hey, can you give me a hand?' you can say, 'Sorry, got these sacks.'" - Jack Handey

How else would he fight that pun?

As someone who works a 40 hr/week job and a 20 hr/week job, (and the extra hours associated with learning various things that apply to each) while also having 3 kids, sometimes people are actually busy.

I coach little league, too.

Yeah, I think it's deeper than just being a self-important asshole. It's more about the fact that we are 1000 times more productive, as a species, than we were just 20 years ago, and yet, we all still work just as hard. This, coupled with always being connected means that our work and obligations never end, they just follow us around.

It all comes down to the yuppies (myself included) wanting to get ahead. The dream of becoming a wealthy entrepreneur is what keeps me from being satisfied working 40 hours a week and reading and relaxing after that, for better or for worse! Also the dream of injecting wealth into my larger family for generations to come.

A lot of what's being written in this thread hits home for me, but especially the 'wanting to get ahead' bit - part of the problem is job insecurity, knowing that your present position may not last, and feeling compelled to use leisure time to increase your marketability for future job applications. Even when I'm not actually working on work-related skills, I feel like I should be, which creates anxiety.

I agree 100% with everything you said. Considering our savings rates these days are atrocious, even a high paying job does not guarantee future job security

Forget efficiency, forget "self-importance" (to me, those calling others "self-important" are most often the most self-important assholes around), sometimes it's just therapeutic. How many times have we read that a good way to treat depression is to keep busy? If nothing else, it keeps you from thinking about your depression.

I think the general devaluation of said work is also a factor -- coupled with this idea of all these "money-saving" DIY tips that are severe time sinks.

If you are working two part-time jobs, you're doing just as much work as a full-timer but not nearly as much pay and certainly not as much in benefits (healthcare, time off, stable work schedule, etc.) that could allow you to USE what leisure you have.

I think you've missed the author's point: she's drawing a distinction between actually being busy (non-self-imposed workload) and telling people you're busy (self-imposed workload). The preceding sentences for context:

Notice it isn’t generally people pulling back-to-back shifts in the I.C.U. or commuting by bus to three minimum-wage jobs who tell you how busy they are; what those people are is not busy but tired. Exhausted. Dead on their feet. It’s almost always people whose lamented busyness is purely self-imposed ...

Working two jobs and rearing three kids is actually busy. Coaching little league and noodling about on HN, on the other hand, is self-imposed.

The self imposed parts keep one sane.

I think this is something a lot of people miss. I actually think it's ok to say you're busy even if that time is spent staring at a wall and I hate that people should feel guilty for wanting that. Cheers for knowing that you need these things to keep sane.

I feel your pain, especially when people say that others pretend to be busy for various reasons. They must single. I'm the father of a single infant and co founder of a startup, with no family nearby to support us. Choosing to be busy or not sounds like a nice choice to have.

Kids, startup, and distant location were all choices.

well, everything is a choice if we start going that route. the idea is to differentiate the intention behind the choice. if the intention (conscious or not) is to hide behind being busy then it's a problem. if you're actually pursuing something other than pretending due to fear or similar limiting reasons, it's not

>well, everything is a choice if we start going that route.

Exactly. And I would add that part of the point posed by the article is that we seem to be overly busy, given whatever life objectives/circumstances we have. So, given that a person choses to have, say, a job and 2 kids, then they are busier on average than in times past.

So, the question isn't whether an individual person can choose to be less busy. The question is why do we tend to be busier than ever on average, when we should theoretically have more leisure time.

You chose to be busy when you fathered a child and co-founded a start up.

edit. the guy below me/above me said it before me.

>* [...] they’re addicted to and dread what they might have to face in its absence.*

This definitely was me. Meditating was very hard for me to take up. Eventually I realized it was because whenever I had a quiet moment, I would start to think about something I didn't want to think about. I'd get anxious and suddenly find that I "had" to go do something.

People catch on if you drink all day. But if you're busy (always working, always coding, always arguing with somebody on the internet, always caught up in an absorbing game) they (and you) may never think, "Gosh, maybe there's something wrong here."

It's the fear of silence That gives us away 'Cause when we're alone We have to hear What our aching hearts try to say. - Randy Stonehill

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