Life360 CEO calls patent troll "Piece of Shit" | Hacker News Reader

Life360 CEO calls patent troll "Piece of Shit"

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47 pointsstevencorona34 comments

Hi guys, Life360's CEO here. Thanks for the help. As a bit more color, the company that is suing is seems to be failing and this is a desperate last gasp.

Checkout http://www.agisinc.com/

As Steve mentioned, we just raised $50m, so we have to spend some real cash to get this invalidated, we'll do it. When we were smaller we would just pay these assholes off, but now we have a warchest we won't roll over so easy.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but while lots of us will support your feelings, your choice of how to display them makes you appear childish. It's unlikely to help your overall point.

Yea, it was childish, but you know what...it felt good.

The whole thing is such a broken mess that giving them the standard prim and proper legal response only helps perpetuate a broken system.

Also, now they are going right to suing us instead of asking for a settlement. This is good for everyone else, because if we win, their patent is invalidated and they can't do this to another company.

I think Series B/C/D companies like us should take these more aggressive stands. We are big enough we don't have to roll over, but we are still small enough that we don't have to be beholden to our own legal departments.

First thing you have to understand is that the ownership of a patent alone doesn't make an organization a "Patent Troll." It may be true that AGIS is struggling in the marketplace but they have full legal right to own patents and protect said patents as they deem appropriate and exercise that right whenever it is beneficial to them. I also agree others on this thread that your belligerent language only makes you seem childish and immature.

What sort of language would you suggest?

Man, I gotta say I thought that that bit about karma was pretty calm and collected - if it was me I don't think I would have been able to resist using far stronger language

Patent holder ? Inventor ?

Honest question: Have you read their patent ? If so, why don't you think it has merit ?

Good on you! You were lucky to the point of creating something that you got the rich to back you and lucky that people used your product.

For the unlucky their is the patent system in which can be used to get ones fair share!

Why is this being downvoted?

This is not a patent troll, rather it's a company still in business who is struggling. Are they supposed to just shut down and fail and give up their IP because of it?

In start-ups your either lucky or unlucky. The unlucky work just as hard as the lucky!

Because any sentiment other than "fuck those patent troll piece of shit douchbags, bro" will be voted down by the pro life360 cabal.

I think it is being downvoted because it doesn't address the real content here. We are being sued for having markers on a map. Who cares if the company is operating or not?

I don't think a company helmed by the inventor which actually sells a product based on the patents is a patent troll.

How do you know the company is failing? And why would that knowledge lead you to believe both that their inquiry was trollish and that it was responsible and appropriate to reply as you did?

Forgive me if I'm just missing the obvious; I have not studied the patents in question and I wouldn't know whether they were legit if I did. But I think of a patent troll as an entity which acquires patents from other companies/inventors for the sole purpose of litigating them, and this company does not appear to fit that model at all.

a) They're not a patent troll. Patent trolls don't create or sell anything and instead just sue people. This company has been around a while and has a real product with real paying customers.

b) Name calling ("Piece of Shit", "assholes") and baseless accusations ("the company seems to be failing...") don't help your cause.

If you don't believe you're infringing or it's an obvious patent that should be invalidated, say why or keep your mouth shut.

Grats on the raise. Your response was childish and inappropriate. If your goal is to get PR then that might be a good strategy except now in the Media you still look childish and only a certain portion will think it was appropriate. If your goal is to win this case then little things like that name calling can hurt you and do nothing more than stroke your ego.

If you're hoping to see patent reform, this dispute seems to be the wrong one to focus on. This strikes me as more of a genuine argument, and not a flagrant abuse of the system that would likely lead to change:

* AGIS seems to be a genuine company, that filed its own patents, and has a real product. There are much clearer examples of trolls out there.

* The patent claims are highly specific. This is not a "...on the Internet" type patent.

* Life360 is not (yet) claiming they don't infringe; they are focusing on obviousness.

* The patent system now has a relatively straightforward, quick and inexpensive system for getting a patent re-examined. Life360 hasn't (yet) said they will do that.

* The Life360 strategy seems to be primarily PR-driven: attention-grabbing language, posting things on Twitter, contacting journalists, etc. This reminds me of the legal saying: "If you’re weak on the facts and strong on the law, pound the law. If you’re weak on the law and strong on the facts, pound the facts. If you’re weak on both, pound the table."

To my mind, this argument seems more likely to boil down to "should ideas be protected by patents", instead of "should we do something about shell companies that abuse patent law to extort money".

I don't really think that AGIS is a patent troll... It looks like they're a real company that makes real products.

You can be a "real" company and still be a patent troll. These guys are probably failing and using their patents to get a few bucks before they finally die.

Your definition is not accurate. Just because one company raises more money than another does not make the company failing in the market place a patent troll. By this definition IBM is a patent troll.

I don't think amount raised has anything to do with it.

I'd say you are a patent troll anytime you are using a bullshit patent to extort a third party. The rub is what constitutes a bullshit patent, but "sending messages through a map UI" seems obviously in this camp. It sucks you have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for the courts to validate this logic though.

So by that definition, I'm sure IBM could be a patent troll, just like any other company with BS IP.

So your company doesn't own any patents?

There are patents and bullshit patents.

Calling a spade "a spade" is one thing, but this does seem a bit childish.

Edit: typo

Morals are out the door when attempting to extort money from legitimate companies to fill your coffers.

I wasn't aware we should behave poorly just because patent trolls behave poorly.

One party is engaging in extortion, the other used an insult. Have a sense of proportion.

The relevant case documents:

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/florida/flsdce/9:2014cv8065...

And the patent numbers:

7,031,728, 8,126,441 & 7,672,681 which cover "using a map to initiate a rapid voice communication or text message"

Just speculation (I work at Life360), but we announced our $50m Series C this week.. looks like the patent troll got the news, too.

Awesome if it is a troll. More people should do it.

It appears this is an actual company though and they filled in Florida not East Texas?

So explain like I'm five: is this an overly broad patent on an idea, e.g. they have a 'system and method for catching mice' and they're suing everyone who makes anything that catches mice? Or did they invent a particular type of mouse trap, and they're suing over someone who is selling the exact same implementation? I love a good angry mob as much as the next guy, and can fully get behind the name-calling if there's something truly nefarious, but help me understand exactly what's being litigated here and why AGIS is deserving of the 'piece of shit' label.

What i don't understand is why do they start with a lawsuit. Why didn't they contact Life360 to work something out, like a partnership. Life360 seems to be the big fish. A greedy small fish trying to eat a big fish is a bad idea i think.

The document very explicitly states that they contacted Life360 to work out a patent licensing arrangement, not with a lawsuit. So they did exactly what you suggested.

It looks like the suit wasn't filed until they were called a "Piece of Shit" for attempting to work something out.

ok got it. jeez with the down votes!

This is HN now.

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