Red wine health benefits 'overhyped' | Hacker News Reader

Red wine health benefits 'overhyped'

bbc.com

61 pointsmrfusion34 comments

It always surprises me when people focus on one small part of a diet that they hope is some kind of super-cure (or in this case, they want an excuse to drink red wine more often). Of course red wine on it's own isn't going to do anything for you, it's your entire diet and lifestyle that matters. Look at the real reasons (which studies like this one do not mention at all) the French likely have less heart disease and are in better shape than most Americans:

- They eat significantly smaller portions

- They take much longer to eat their meals (resulting in eating much less, because you know you're full)

- There is a focus on quality food and cooking, which results in better ingredients used

- The focus on quality means a focus on freshness, which leads to less processed food (especially refined carbs) being consumed

- The french walk and ride bikes much more than their average American counterpart

There's a book that covers this nicely. It's written by a women that moved from Vancouver BC (although us Canadians hate to admit it, we eat like Americans) to France with her French husband. It covers the realm of French culture surrounding eating.

The most interesting part to me was the school lunches. It is frowned upon to send your kid to school with a lunch. Kids are expected to eat what is given to them, whatever the cafeteria staff decide to prepare.

http://www.amazon.com/French-Kids-Eat-Everything-Discovered/...

I taught English in a French school. The cafeteria lunches, at least in my region, were excellent.

You had a baguette and salad, an appetizer, a main course, and a desert. Some schools served wine.

All the meals were very well done with sauces and fresh ingredients. Nothing processed, everything was cooked from scratch. Beats what most people in North America make on their own.

Sounds incredible, something I think would be hard to implement after years of corporate food contracts.

I think you had a lucky experience. In reality, most french schools have to make do with a limited budget per child (depending on how wealthy the region of the school is). It is true though that they have nutritional guidelines to follow and that they try to make the companies that provide the lunches (usually they are received in the morning and then prepared by the school's cook) work harder towards a balanced diet and good quality ingredients.

Source: a family friend of mine was a cook who was managing these things for my region.

About the refined carbs: bread is a staple of French food. And there is even an historic stigma around non-white bread (bread that's not from refined flour). Eating white bread was what everybody was striving for, a sign of having made it (18th, 19th centuries). During the whole 20th century, I think French people ate white bread by a vast majority. Later came the trend of various grains and toast size stuff, from Germany (now cereal count is like razor blades, in a supermarket I found a 7 cereals bread).

edit: I'm not really answering to the topic at hand, being an obese French guy I'm not in a position to teach anyone on dietary advice.

You forgot a few:

- The French smoke like chimneys

- Drink some form of alcohol daily

- Are dedicated carnivores (vegetarians are rare)

I come here a few months a year (south of France) and it always amazes me how healthy everyone appears to be despite the excess of "sin" the French revel in.

Lifestyle obviously comes into play in terms of longevity (I believe the world's oldest woman was French and she smoked moderately into her 100s). In other words, the phrase, "work before pleasure", very likely did not originate in France.

> - The French smoke like chimneys

In Italy, this is actually changing fairly quickly. 10+ years ago, they banned smoking indoors, and I figure that, like a lot of rules here, people would sort of pay attention for a few weeks and then gradually ignore it, but the reality is that it's actually been fairly strictly enforced/followed, and people are happy with the results. Smoking is still more common than in the US, but diminishing.

It's changing in France also. I'm old and most of my French friends are old and not one of them smokes. This is obviously anecdotal and selection bias, but in my 20+ years of observing I've noticed that restaurants have gone from smoke filled rooms in which everyone is smoking to the occasional smoker at the table next to you.

Smoking in bars and restaurants is banned in France since 2008. You won't find anyone smoking in restaurants now.

> happy with results

I'll predict expanding waist lines and increasing obesity rates.

Something I completely forgot to mention was stress (I realize this is now 24 hours and no one will probably read this). I have a great aunt who lived to be 104, and her secret to long life was the lack of stress. She drank, smoked, and ate whatever she wanted, but she lived in a hotel almost her entire life (she owned a floor in said hotel), never had kids, and only worked in her younger days. This has nothing to do with the French, but I think is applicable.

There is quite a pleasant little recipe book, 'French Women Don't Get Fat' that correlates nicely with your points.

I'd expect people who eat a piece of chocolate with coffee and have a glass of wine with their meals are simply happier and less stressed overall.

If I understood the article correctly, a more appropriate title would be "Resveratrol health benefits 'overhyped'* :

> Studies have shown that consumption of red wine, dark chocolate and berries reduces inflammation, leading researchers to speculate that their common ingredient, resveratrol, explains why.

> He says any benefits of drinking wine or eating dark chocolate or berries, if they are there, must come from other shared ingredients. And it's not clear how much you might need to eat or drink.

> "These are complex foods, and all we really know from our study is that the benefits are probably not due to resveratrol."

"Many studies have sought to explain why there is a low incidence of heart disease in France, despite many of its inhabitants eating a high-fat diet."

It's funny that this is where this theory came from. It was unfathomable at the time that maybe we were wrong about dietary fat.

And the article is furthering the opinion that a high-fat diet causes heart disease by including that snippet.

Apparently it still is unfathomable that fat may actually be good for you since that sentence was included in the article.

Meanwhile:

"When it comes to cancer, no amount of alcohol is safe."

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/824237

Huh fascinating. Thanks for the link. For everyone that dismisses this article because it requires a login you can create a free account and they will let you in.

You can read the article if you come from a Google search.

http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medscape.com%2F...

Version without login: http://www.meltingmama.net/files/noamountofalcoholissafe.pdf

Also alcohol is pretty costly in terms of our economy:

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/10report/chap06c.pdf

It was kind of surprising to hear how just fraudulent the research on reservatrol (characteristic red wine chemical) was. The guy was a regular feature[1] on Retraction Watch until he passed away...

[1] http://retractionwatch.com/category/by-author/dipak-das/

As is yoga, gluten free foods (for 99% of people who think they need it), antioxidants, etc.

In general if you hear five people a day tell you how "X changed my life!!1" it's probably bullshit mixed with a pinch of placebo.

Want to have a good life and be healthy? Spend more time outside, avoid long commutes, take long breaks, do things you like doing whenever possible, value yourself and your time, and don't take shit from people. This way even if you do die young, you'll die with a smile.

most of what I've read that speaks of health benefits (cancer free + longevity) also mention that you'd have to get the resveratrol from a supplement because its unhealthy to drink the large number of glasses of wine per day.

eg: "The Linus Pauling Institute has an interesting table that displays the resveratrol levels of various wines, showing that an average glass of red wine will range from 0.2 to 2.0 mg per glass of wine. In contrast, the typical resveratrol supplement contains anywhere from 100 mg of resveratrol to 500 mg of resveratrol per capsule" --- http://wine.about.com/od/wineandhealth/a/Red-Wine-And-Resver...

Everything in moderation. Including moderation.

Who is the moderator?

Lost Horizon. Very good.

Big f'in surprise. Any instance of "X food substance will make you healthier all by itself" is bullshit.

Well in rat experiments a little bit of alcohol in their water makes them live longer. The supposed mechanism is that alcohol helps keep intestinal bacteria in check and reduces endotoxin absorption.

There are various other reasons to think that in most people light alcohol intake is protective. I don't think wine has anything to do with it. The safest drink would be a high quality vodka.

The vodka would need to be diluted prior to ingestion to qualify as safe.

Duh. We all knew what this was really about when we started talking about it.

Along the lines, I heard that cheap wines ( probably cheap red wines, which you can get from Trader Joe) are more healthier then costly wines.

I always figured that was just something winos had latched onto to make themselves feel good. Same with potheads touting marijuana's non-toxicity.

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