How a German Soda Became Hackers' Fuel of Choice | Hacker News Reader

How a German Soda Became Hackers' Fuel of Choice

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111 pointsrizumu115 comments

Mate is the national drink here in Uruguay, has been for a century or two :) (and for 500 years in Paraguay).

And it was a fad in California some years past. ("According to a major retailer of mate in San Luis Obispo, California, by 2004, mate had grown to about 5% of the overall natural tea market in North America")

But I'm surprised at the speed it's propagating in Europe.

Many say it's much better suited for prolonged concentration than coffee, almost every single university student here drinks it, so I'm not surprised that German hackers are taking advantage of its benefits too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mate_(beverage)

There's a Congress on Yerba Mate and its health effects and benefits going on right now (from the 8th to today)

http://www.infoyerbamate.com/index.php?option=com_content&vi...

Is there much difference between the effects of mate and standard black tea? Because there's almost the same amount of caffeine in a strongly brewed black tea as there is in coffee.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2013/nov/27/caffeine-compare...

Well, to be fair it's traditionally drank in a kind of tea preparation (in the broad sense of an infusion, not in the strict sense of a tea plant)

It's mixed with hot water (or cold) than drank through a filter/straw

I've had it the traditional way, but it's more efficient at the office to use a French press.

Nevermind the tea. How does it compare to modafinil?

Its not entirely unlike tea. You can see plenty of pictures of children tasting it, I doubt it has any major effects besides having to pee often.

https://www.google.com/search?q=crianca+chimarrao&num=20&sou...

Nothing compares to modafinil but modafinil. Modafinil is a glorious stimulant gifted to humanity by the gods themselves.

Modafinil:

Pros - gets stuff done, cuts the chit-chat, and all without a hint you're taking medication.

Cons - life without it.

Easier to obtain, I'm sure. What I wouldn't give for a Modafinil scrip...

Southern Brazilian here. I drink "tererê" (mate prepared as iced tea) quite often and find the effects to be quite similar, although the taste is very different.

The same in the south of Brazil. Mate is more than a simple tea for us, people drink it everyday and everywhere, in the "original form" (hot, in a gourd shell, share between a group of people).

Uruguayans normally drink it alone but Gauchos (southern state of Brazil) drink it in a circle of friends.

I actually would like to drink one "Chimarrão"[1] just for me - so I don't have to get up all the time to pass it to the next assigned person[2] - but its considered rude.

So I just stay with coffee...

[1] http://s2.glbimg.com/L_hWuULy3EKaRQyKY4-5jCPBfr0=/top/s.glbi...

[2] Its polite to respect the order after the first round

--edit--

It seems that my impression that uruguayans didn't share "mate" was wrong, sorry.

It's a wonderful drink. I've been hooked up on it for many years now and it's the perfect hacking companion.

I still get my morning resurrection from coffee, but abandon it afterwards. Mate doesn't give me the jitters, doesn't burn my stomach and it's very low-maintenance compared to tea, which needs to be left just this much time before it becomes a bitter, undrinkable blargh.

> before it becomes a bitter, undrinkable blargh.

Try a small amount of honey, I drink a fair amount of tea (I'm English, it has to be done) and I'm one of those freaks who like it pretty stewed but if I go too far I find a drop of honey takes a lot of the edge of the bitterness.

>>I'm English, it has to be done

To be fair it's not quite right anymore: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=british+coffee+vs+tea

I'm a tea junkie myself, although unlike the pretentious tea junkies I don't pretend to be insulted at the sight of a teabag. I'm ok with the normal bitterness of the tea; what troubles me is that it does occasionally happen that I drop the bag or the leaves in, start debugging, and twenty minutes of how the fuck does this even compile later it suddenly dawns on me that FUCK I'VE BEEN STEEPING THIS FOR 20 MINUTES THIS IS GOING TO MELT MY TONGUE.

Mate doesn't suffer from this inconvenience. I just pour the water and forget about it, refilling it when there's no more of that sweet liquid and tossing in more leaves when that liquid is no longer sweet.

Edit: that being said, your tip about adding a drop of honey is spot on! I also like my tea a bit overstewed and adding a splash of honey does take the edge of a little if I push it too far.

I had to stop drinking mate due to the sugar content (diabetes). I now favor black teas (like Earl Gray). I get the same "leveled" energy from teas.

I started drinking Mate after my father brought some yerba (and two Materas) from Chile. I prefer it to coffee mainly because the latter kills my stomach and intestine while I tolerate Mate quite well.

One recommended way of serving it is to grab a Grapefruit and "knead" it (as if it was dough) so that the juices are freed inside. Then make a big hole (like a triangle) with a knife, getting as deep as possible; add some yerba mate in the hole, and then place the bombilla (straw) in there. You can add some honey for a sweeter flavour.

I got hooked on Yerba Mate at a former employer - they kept it stocked in their meticulously curated kitchenettes. Occasionally I'll see it at a bodega and pick it up again, but I haven't found a reliable (and close-to-the-office) spot to pick them up quite a while. Stuff is fantastic.

I bought some Mate at a local store. I really liked the taste. Grassy, but in an elegant way. And it kicks less than a strong coffee, but it did seem to last longer.

What I heard was that throat cancer was more prevalent in parts of Southern America where people drink Mate. The traditional way of brewing it, in a gourd with boiling water is fine. The problem comes from actually drinking it while still next to boiling temperature. Interesting.

Here in Sweden I would say it's more about alternative DIY/organic & local/vegan subcultures, counter cultures, not hacking specifically.

In fact, among the hackers I know, the ones who drink Club-Mate are also the ones who are involved in aforementioned counter cultural themes.

Yerba Mate and Club Mate are two completely different beasts. Club Mate is more of a "soft drink" than an actual tea.

Club Mate is the only caffeinated soda that isn't overly sweet, doesn't give me a bad stomach and doesn't make me jittery. The first time I had it was at a CCC event in 2002, and back then, it was really obscure. In the last 5 or so years though, it has became a staple in Berlin, and you can get it at practically every corner shop.

Indeed, I'd say it's more popular in Berlin than Coke.

A lot of comments here seem to be equating various tea forms of mate with Club Mate. Club Mate is a soda as in it belongs on the self somewhere next to Coke and Red Bull. It's got more caffeine than Coke but only about 1/2 the sugar. I really liked it.

Tea made from mate is the same only in the sense that orange juice is similar to orange soda. As in they are arguably not really similar.

That's not to say anything negative about mate based teas. I drink those too. Just that, if you go get Yerba Mate or any other mate tea you're not drinking anything remotely similar to Club Mate.

I equated it mostly because I was commenting about its effects - if Club Mate has a similar effect than regular Mate "tea", it's a better alternative to coffee, and at least one comment here makes it seem so (cessor: "With mate the caffeine rush is much better"):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7725211

I'll have to taste Club Mate and see what it tastes like (I might like it more than regular Mate! I find it too bitter)

"The golden soda has become essential nourishment for anyone in Berlin involved in hacktivism, club culture, dance music, tech—just about everyone in the city under the age of 40."

What a ridiculous sentence.

It's probably written by Club Mate copywriters.

The first half of the sentence definitely feels that way... the second half just feels almost offensively exclusionary. Unless Berlin is a really weird, dysfunctional place, like London's Old Street roundabout on a city-wide scale - which is a horrifying thought.

Londoners usually think Berlin is kinda weird. Things are very different. The London ideal is suit, tie and lots of money. In Berlin it's actually the opposite. It's a bit hipsterish, but also really cool.

Berlin isn't really any more "hipster" than other cities, it's just...more relaxed. As you say, not so concerned with money and status. Not as frantic and crowded as New York or London. Lots and lots of trees.

It's basically achieved the perfect urban population density thanks to blocks of six-story buildings. Very lively, but rarely uncomfortably crowded.

It is. People wandering around with stupid glasses with no lenses in them. Fixie bikes everywhere.

> The London ideal is suit, tie and lots of money.

The City ideal is suit, tie and lots of money. Outside of the City and Docklands, you'll find plenty of Londoners with nothing but scorn for that ideal.

You're parsing it wrong. Mentally insert an "and" after the hyphen.

The article looked to me like very obvious PR.

This article[1] from pg has been linked like a million times, but it's as relevant as it was the first time.

> Trend articles like this are almost always the work of PR firms. Once you know how to read them, it's straightforward to figure out who the client is.

EDIT: oftenwrong linked the article before me; I hadn't read their message when I send mine. I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw it.

[1] http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

Standard disclaimer - this article was originally written about me, and was completely wrong.

(Although this probably is a press hit)

yeah. I am 40 and still drink club mate. :-)

If there only was a sugar free variant. Having quit sugary sodas also meant having to overcome my Club Mate addiction. :(

I have the same problem. I loved club mate but now on lowcarb I really can't drink it anymore :(

The original, South American variant, is a tea-like infusion, which is supposed to be bitter and sugar-free :) (though there's a "mate dulce" sweet variant)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mate_(beverage)

I know it's sold in Austria, but I don't know whether you can find it in Germany.

Edit: apparently it's sold at speciality shops in Germany too, like Delicatino

www.delicatino.de/es/nosotros?b98bf9d568d475199bf586135367cc54=qjqxosww

http://www.yerba-mate.de/

http://www.gustoargentino.com/

http://www.bockandgardener.com/

Even the typical Uruguayan variant is available at stores like Mittemeer and Aquí España:

http://tropicalizandoberlin.com/?tag=yerba-mate-en-berlin-2

Delicatino in English is probably easier for most people:

http://www.delicatino.de/en/about-us?b98bf9d568d475199bf5861...

Thanks for the reply, but I would be more interested in a soda with artificial sweetener. It would be great if they made a Club Mate variant without sugar

It's all lovely and shit, but once you hook up on Club Mate and leave Germany you feel quite damned. I feel the same about Savanna Dry (South African Sider) but in recent years they expanded the market quite dramatically hope germans will do the same :)

Yes, it's damn difficult to get it outside of Germany, but well... if you're really hooked up on it, you'll always find a way :).

It gets way harder if you travel a lot. To get some delivered within EU should be fairly easy there are plenty of individuals doing cargo delivery business with insanely low prices but if you in asia or africa you out of options...

>I feel the same about Savanna Dry

There is always the Hunters range produced by the sister company of the Savanna Dry producer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cider#South_Africa

Try living without tap Deuchars IPA https://www.caledonianbeer.com/beers/deuchars-ipa/ . :(

I love Mate.

If you speak german there's a great Chaosradio episode [0] about the different "Hackerbrausen" / "Hackersoda" where they are talking about the history of Club Mate and other drinks in that genre.

[0] http://cre.fm/cre175-hackerbrausen

"Brause" can also be translated to "lemonade" or "soda" in german. The article claims "shower", which is another meaning, but in the context the wrong one.

At the 30c3 there were Club Mate and Flora Power.

Flora Power is actually a bit better - not that sweet.

https://twitter.com/zeitiger/status/416496391209644032/photo...

Flora Power was surprisingly great, and indeed a little less sugary. Tried it at 30c3 for the first time too.

1337Mate used to taste like Flora Power, only with more caffeine, but now it tastes like marshmallows :(

I drink my coffee black. but sugar is great, someone has to say it.

I liked Flora Power at 30c3, but still prefer the Californian Guayaki unsweetened mate (in a snapple-type bottle).

http://guayaki.com/product/127/Unsweetened-Mate-(Case-of-12)...

There was a period it was 4 for $5 at Whole Foods.

You can order it in North America from the 2600 store: http://store.2600.com/clubmate.html

Funny there was no mention in the article that they are the eastern distributor what with them being a hacker organization with deep ties to the CCC.

If you live in the NYC are, come to the H.O.P.E. convention, there will be plenty for sale.

Also, that these fine locations in the NYC area: https://mapsengine.google.com/map/u/0/edit?mid=zxNGGEaFaiHs....

We also have a matekarte, which shows Mate availability world-wide:

https://www.matekarte.de

Various Mate brands:

https://www.matekarte.de/brands

The taste reminds me of fig newtons and Worcestershire sauce.

you're not selling it. ;-)

Well, about half of the people I introduced to Club Mate said the exact same thing - that it tastes like water from cigarette butts.

Haters gonna hate. I still love it. ;).

It does taste like that :) that is Mate taste, learn to love it.

That was my initial impression, too.

Still, it tastes good. ßi love it!

I'd like to stress what the article says about the difference to other caffeinated drinks. I drink coffee a lot, since it is more easily available, but I prefer club mate if I can get some. For work it is much better than coffee. I tend to get very shaky and restless from coffee, my leg will start bouncing after a lot of programming (i.e. concentrated work periods in front of a computer). With mate the caffeine rush is much better, I stay more focussed and can concentrate more easily. I am not as restless. Yet it is possible to overdose. One bottle can last for hours, I bet the guy in the article could look through time after 10 bottles a day. If you can get it, try it!

I've never seen anyone drink that outside of berlin ...

In hacker spaces it's everywhere.

The company I work for has always a few Club Mate in the refrigerator.

In Düsseldorf/Germany.

One of the best east coast hackerspaces, http://www.nycresistor.com/ has practically made it the official drink of the place.

Thanks for the link! I've been wondering where I could take some beginner classes for arduino and the like, but now I know.

It's also available in Hamburg, Leipzig and other German biggish cities.

When I visited the university of Göttingen, it was everywhere. Students also seem to have it adopted as the drink of choice.

I've seen it in almost every shop in Hamburg. In other regions it's more a few group of people that drink it. In my university it's quite popular for instance.

It's everywhere in Budapest: http://www.clubmate.hu/#map

It's now available in every larger supermarket even in mid-sized west-German cities, like here in Wuppertal. So somebody must drink it.

It's now available in supermarkets in rural NRW. So, I don't think "only Berlin" is remotely true anymore.

Didn't know it's that popular, especially among "hackers". At work the Coca Cola crate gets empty faster than the Club Mate crate.

Visit any Hackerspace anywhere in the world, and you'll likely find a crate of two of Club Mate there. It's a de-facto official drink of Hackerspaces worldwide. At ours (Kraków, Poland) we go through a crate or two a week.

I think club mate, hacked hackers...

Same here in Austria. At metalab.at (hackerspace in Vienna) we need about 10 crates per week, and god forbid we run dry...

Go to any co-working space in Berlin and you'll see.

Learned about when visiting LeineLab in Hanover, stuck with me forever since. At Hackerspace Kraków we go through a crate or two in a week, and this drink kept us through many sessions of night hacking.

Edit:

Re Club Mate being semi-official drink in Hackerspaces worldwide, see http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/The_Club_Mate_Pattern :).

I love German candor in product descriptions. Right on the label it says "tanning agents." Mmmmm. Tannery. That hits the spot.

What happened to Vita Cola? Only drinkable thing from Germany :)

I have East German parents and they lived on that stuff until the wall came down.

>Only drinkable thing from Germany

They do have one or two beers that are quite drinkable.

I found you have to drink a lot of it before it becomes drinkable which is a bit of a catch 22...

There are also Yerba Mate beers out there: http://www.beersofeurope.co.uk/mateveza-black-lager

What's with the url? http://www-refresh.vice-motherboard-test.appspot.com

Not sure, did a little digging, and it should be http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/how-a-german-soda-became-ha...

Hear hear. I love the variety of mate sodas in Berlin too. Club Mate is like the OG, but 1337Mate is promising so far!

Everything besides Club Mate is Berlin Hipstery :P

;)

Trader Joe's, the American grocery chain, sells Yerba Mate tea, now, as well...it's everywhere.

Is there any cheap place to buy this in the U.S.? I've wanted to try it for awhile, but I can't justify spending three dollars a bottle at the 2600 store when I can get regular energy drinks for half the price.

You can get loose-leaf mate for cheaper than that per drink, but probably more than $3 per purchase.

I recently switched to matcha from coffee buying into similar claims of 'long lasting jitter free zen concentration'. Have been happy so far. Has anyone tried both matcha and matte? How do they compare?

I used to drink a lot of club mate. I loved it, but I had to stop drinking it because there is much more sugar in it than you would think and I developed dental health issues.

If it's so good why shouldn't someone Kickstarter a company to make something similar in the US? Seems like a real opportunity. Just advertise on HN and profit.

I think it is similar in that are many cola options, but only one Coca-Cola. Although there are many mate alternatives as well, the mystique surrounding Club Mate and its recipe is what makes it stand out from the rest.

Man I have given this serious thought before. Anyone else? Get in touch if you want to kick some ideas around. I don't know the first thing about distribution, but I'm interested in brewing craft sodas, and I could make a kickass website for it.

Where are you based? Email me manav@me.com.

You can already get it in the US here: http://store.2600.com/clubmate.html

That stuff will scrap your taste buds out and keep you awake for days. For some reason I like it... not sure why. Its an acquired taste and I can't see it going gangbuster here.

Many hackerspaces try or tried to brew their own. It's not as easy as it sounds.

"Horse piss filtered through hay"...say no more. In.

Seems like a "submarine"

http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

Maybe. But it is also interesting. I upvoted this because the "every Hackerspace in the world drinks Club Mate" phenomenon is real, and I'm happy I could learn more about the stuff I drink all the time ;).

Hmm, I don't know. The small brewery that's making Club Mate here in Germany doesn't do any PR/advertisement.

It's also a hassle to get it here in Germany outside of Berlin. I'm living in a 300k pop city and there's only one store that sells Club Mate.

So I wouldn't really believe it to be some marketing tactics.

there is an online store for the US if you promise not resell it:

http://club-mate.us/

Or tea. Probably the hackers second choice.

If I look at the company I work for, it's quite diverse.

Munich: human-made espresso and beer. I haven't seen much tea.

Düsseldorf: machine-made espresso, Club-Mate and a variety of tea.

Don't know what they drink in Frankfurt.

The tea drinkers in Düsseldorf are not yet very sophisticated. What most of them failed to understand: absolutely excellent Japanese green tea is available - due to s strong Japanese community.

Many of these trends are actually from Hamburg. The CCC originated in Hamburg. New drinks like the Flora Power mate and 1337MATE are from Hamburg.

http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/leetmate-hackerbrause-aus...

In thuringia, clubmate is preferred. But i also saw many hackers just drinking tea.

What the heck is up with the URL?

I know, right?

Normal:

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-a-german-soda-became-ha...

Abnormal:

http://www-refresh.vice-motherboard-test.appspot.com/blog/ho...

where did someone get ahold of that URL to begin with....random appspot test server? some dev probably not happy to see that in the wild heh.

Is it possible to order this soda online?

A quick look on Amazon and Google Shopping turned up nothing.

Try searching 'club mate' and your country. Results came up for a UK branch for me, just checked and the same happens for the US.

US? Some pointers here (online and physical locations): http://club-mate.us/

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