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Comment by marquis | Hacker News Reader

As a complete Bach nerd may I recommend this as the ultimate recording of one of his greatest works:

http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Matthaus-Passion-Bostridge-Colleg...

A search for Herreweghe+Matthaus on Youtube brings up a 'preview' for those interested to listen immediately.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_Ai171EQeU

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I just checked the preview you mentioned on Youtube and it's absolutely incredible. I'm definitely adding that album to my collection, but I wonder if I could ask for some more help?

I don't have much experience with Bach, or even classical music outside of the really famous pieces. It's a genre that, though I've always been interested in, I've never invested the time to gain a real understanding. Recently, I got into Bach through this album:

http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Goldberg-Variations-Glenn-Gould/

Graduated to this:

http://www.amazon.com/State-Wonder-Complete-Goldberg-Variati...

That link you posted reminds me there is so much that I've never even heard of. Do you have any other recommendations? So far, you're batting 1.000...:)

Glenn Gould's (multiple) performances of Bach are considered some of the best interpretations of Bach among the academic classical community. Listening the Gould's different interpretations of these gives us a windows into the real talent of performers. You might be interested in checking out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Two_Short_Films_About_Gl...

Glenn Gould is absolutely the definitive source in regards to Bach piano music. For me the beauty in Bach's music is the extreme technical expertise, which, like an extraordinary piece of architecture, unveils a perfect geometry and universal perfection that makes our hearts and minds meet in the same exquisite place. But you need an exacting performance to be able to appreciate it.

It gets so personal. Check out this thread just on Violin sonatas: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=20...

You just have to listen to a few of the best and listen and listen, and if possible go see some play live, and you'll start to know what you love and what you are looking for. I am a fan of period instruments and technical performances, rather than the more mainstream recordings by someone like Yo Yo Ma.

So some great performances that I personally love:

Anner Bylsma, Cello Suites on a Baroque cello http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Suites-Cello-BWV-1007-1012/dp/B00...

Jordi Savall and Hesperion, The Art of Fugue http://www.amazon.com/Die-Kunst-Fugue-Art/dp/B00005NTKF (I love all their recordings and Savall does a mean Sainte-Colombe)

For Bach's Musical Offering I have a hard time saying which is the best: I have too many favourites. Maybe just hit up Youtube until you find one that grabs you, but try and avoid anything that isn't in HD quality. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Musical+Offerin... Savall does a fine version here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4lwV3IMHMQ

I love everything that you said and have no quarrel with any of it. I just thought it worth pointing out that when you say

"if possible go see some play live"

after extolling Glenn Gould, that he would probably advise not going to live performances. Gould thought that live performances were distracting rituals and that music could be much more easily focused on and appreciated through recordings. Personally, although I understand his point, I think the occasional live concert is worthwhile.

I love Gould because of the way he brings out Bach's counterpoint so clearly, especially the inner lines - his playing is a good argument for using the piano to perform Bach's keyboard works rather than something more authentic to the period. As a fan of period instruments, what do you think about that?

I am not a musician the calibre, or even near it, to Gould but I completely, utterly disagree about live music. Maybe he preferred the recording studio, but why would you want to take away live music from the tradition! It's like watching a chef make food on TV instead of being where you should be when it comes to food: in the kitchen and dining room, smelling all the smells.

Edit for those not agreeing: try sitting under or near a grand piano with your eyes closed. Your body experience is completely, utterly different than listening to the same music over even a very good stereo sound system. Being in the same room as an orchestra or even small chamber ensemble gives you a fully physical experience. It's not just your ears being involved, when listening to music.

As far as "classical" music goes, I can definitely live without the synchronized audience coughing between movements. Or the fact that you can only applaud at the end of the piece, no matter that a prior movement might have ended on an energetic forte and the last movement on an introspective pianissimo. Or the upraised eyebrows you inevitably draw if you're under 70.

I have to disagree. When listening to a recording, you hear all the music. A more fitting analogy would be tasting and eating the food without seeing the chef prepare it.

No audio system comes close to sitting in front of a symphony orchestra with a hundred or more different sound sources.

This is absolutely correct, but for choral music Janet Cardiff's 40 Part Motet might actually come close. http://www.cardiffmiller.com/artworks/inst/motet.html

Better than close. When in real life would you get to hear a choir of that caliber, and just walk into the middle of them singing?

Yes, I suppose that's usually frowned upon during the performance. :)

> Glenn Gould is absolutely the definitive source in regards to Bach's piano music.

I love Gould's performances, but it's worth saying that plenty of good musicians don't, so "definitive" is probably not the best word. So, anyone reading this: If you listen to Gould playing (say) the Well-Tempered Clavier or the Goldberg Variations and find it too mannered or mechanical or can't get past his humming, try Schiff or Richter or Perahia or someone more "mainstream". (And try Gould again later when you're more familiar with the music, just in case your tastes change; what he does, he does very well indeed.)

Agreed.

I will especially vouch for Andras Schiff's recent recording of the Well-Tempered Clavier as an alternative choice. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008NR8YXC/

Since the Goldberg Variations were written for the harpsichord, I don't think any piano version could be considered definitive ;-)

Forgive me for the late reply, but thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions and make such great recommendations! It's much appreciated.

Since you discovered Gould and the Goldbergs, I have two comments.

First, I personally find the original 1955 version almost unbearable. I love his playing, but the mono sound is exhausting. Then I discovered the Zenph Re-Performance recording. In one word: stunning. Especially with the binaural tracks, it sounds like Gould is playing right there in your living room. Give it a listen. http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Goldberg-Variations-Performance-R... — Neat technology behind this, too.

Second, try Murray Perahia's version. Gould and Perahia are my favorites for piano Bach.

Huh, that Zenph Re-Performance recording sounds interesting. I hadn't heard of that before, I will definitely check it out. Thanks.

A hearty second to the recommendation of Perahia's Variations.

I know it's heretical but I just can't get past his audible humming/moaning. I tried...I wish I could. I love it when Keith Jarrett does it, but for some reason Gould's voice just pollutes the music for me.

I find that going out to concerts is important to my understanding of this tradition. Seeing and hearing actual instruments helps to tease out the various lines of the music and make sense of it all. There isn't any recording system that can capture a performance of a Mahler symphony (or the Schoenberg Gurrelieder). And a small intimate chamber concert is a lot of fun too, a shared experience with strangers. Concerts are programmed with an eye for contrast and coherence, and you can discover interesting pieces through unusual pairings.

Suggestion: as a contrast to the Goldberg and Bach's world generally, try Schubert. A particular favourite of mine is the String Quintet (doubled cello) D. 956. The Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum provides a live concert recording[2].

Plea: To keep this music alive, can people please buy recordings by living artists now and again? Many here are mentioning Glen Gould's Goldberg. Try Simone Dinnerstein's recording (Telarc CD in Europe). Listen to Jeremy Denk's realisation in a small concert setting (Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum)[1] for nowt. All classical musicians working now are competing against 100 years of recordings!

[1] http://www.gardnermuseum.org/music/listen/music_library?filt...

[2] http://www.gardnermuseum.org/music/listen/music_library?filt...

I'll see your recording and raise you the violin concertos by Julia Fischer and Academy of St. Martin in the Fields.

http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Violin-Concertos-Johann-Sebastian...

Check out the Allegro Assai of No. 1 in A minor. It'll change your life (couldn't find an open link):

http://open.spotify.com/track/0IarugQduXzlo9SSZyRpuf

Fun fact: Paul Simon lifted the basic harmony and melody for his song "American Tune" from that piece, which itself lifted them from an earlier piece. Remixing is not a new phenomenon!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Tune

Until the age of recorded commercial music it was considered completely normal to lift tunes, harmonies, anything recognisable, from other composers. In classical music it's generally considered a complement, more rarely a parody. Copyright has been around for much longer with printed music: as early as the 1500's we see Henry 8th issuing protections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_music_publishing#Cop...

To illustrate that: here's a video from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation that looks at musical quotation, using the Star Trek:TOS theme. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTaSjS1pwhQ

And composers recycled their own work. Bach had to knock out three hours of music each Sunday for four years or so when he was Kapellmeister. You'd reuse!

"Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal." -- Stravinsky

Here's the Spotify link for the Bostridge recording: spotify:album:5ZHCqltda5ywYkHPqFIUQJ.

I'm avid Rhapsody user to discover new music. This hard to find album is available there to play: http://app.rhapsody.com/artist/various-artists/album/js-bach...

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