The origin of “log in” (2011) | Hacker News Reader

The origin of “log in” (2011)

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It's quite amazing how many words (and phrases) in common usage are actually nautical terms.

For example...when was the last time you said: 'Everything is above board'

'That company needs a bailout'

'A storm is coming, we better batten things down'

'Did someone just let the cat out of the bag?'

'We better clear the deck so we can start this new project'

'This project is doomed. We need to cut and run'

'My son is an excellent student. He passed his exam with flying colors'

'They successfully used a loop hole to get around the rules'

'You better toe the line' (usually mis-spelled as 'tow the line' on the internet these days)

There are many, many more.

But then you have to remember, at one point in history, all things shipping and nautical were the high tech of its day, and for a long time period.

As for me, I'll be giving any more phrases a wide berth and waiting until the sun is over the yardarm so I can pop a beer.

Interesting, I did not realize the nautical context of some of these phrases :)

Could you explain 'letting the cat out of the bag' in this context? I'm asking because I've read a different legend: Apparently on markets a few centuries ago, young pigs were frequently sold in bags. Sometimes people tried to sell captured cats as farrows in the hope the buyer would not open the bags before the deal was made and the seller far enough away. IIRC they chose cats because they sounded similar to farrows. Lacking farrows I cannot confirm that :)

It refers to the cat o' nine tails, which was used to punish sailors in the Royal Navy and was, supposedly, kept in a special bag. It's also where "not enough room to swing a cat" is said to come from.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Cat-o%27-...

This seems to correlate to a Hebrew expression "buying a cat in a sack", meaning taking something without confirming its quality. Indeed, same legend is presented as the source for this expression as well.

The nautical origin of the 'cat out of the bag' definitely refers to taking the cat o'9 tails out of the bag it was kept in. Whether that, in itself, was linked to hiding a cat in a bag to pass off in a market isn't clear. As always, there is dispute about the origins of terms.

I personally like 'aloof', coming from the Dutch word loef which means windward.

The devil to pay is another cool one. From Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey Maturin series (great books by the way):

""'Why, the devil, do you see,’ said Jack, ‘is the seam between the deck-planking and the timbers, and we call it the devil, because it is the devil for the caulkers to come at: in full we say the devil to pay and no pitch hot; and what we mean is, that there is something hell-fire difficult to be done – must be done – and nothing to do it with. It is a figure.’""

So the right one to use depends somewhat on the context. It's the "login page" but "you need to log in". But it's not super clear in all cases.

I always catch myself saying 'I got it offline', but I wonder if it is incorrect to say that and instead to say I got it online. What's your take?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_and_offline

Could you use the expression in context?

If you're saying e.g., "I got this pdf offline", I would argue your usage is incorrect and that saying, "I downloaded this pdf","got it online", or some variant would be more accurate.

That is, unless you would consider, 'got it offline' to be an idiomatic expression for 'downloaded/retrieved-from-the-internet' in whatever region you're from. ~

Is "login" a username, or an instance of logging in (i.e. "your last login was 2 days ago"), or both? To be honest, I don't see many times when "login" is necessary. You can click "Log in" to log in, and most form fields will use "username" or "email address" rather than "login."

What do you make of "log off" vs. "log out"? I feel like I used to hear the former (and its complement "log on") somewhat often, but everything seems to use "log in/out" now.

Bless you. Now please explain to people that "real time" is a noun and "real-time" is an adjective.

Thank you. Now someone please take on "set up"/"setup" and "back up"/"backup".

Or tell my why "front end" is more common than "frontend", while "backend" is more common than "back end".

Run time and runtime are quite different in usage (the former is a time, the latter is a piece of software).

There's not really a strong distinction in the mindshare. People use them interchangeably.

That's a fun read. It is true that in time sharing systems the ability to attach an identity to things the mainframe was doing was a direct requirement of the accountants who wanted to distribute the cost of that machine to the users.

Like the author, I frequently get hung up on which of "log in", "sign in", or any of their variants is 'more correct' every time I put together software with users.

"Authenticate" might be the most correct verb, although it's not very user friendly?

Personally I prefer "log in" to "sign in" because it makes it stand out more from "sign up", thus hopefully leading to fewer users accidentally selecting one when they wanted the other. And regarding the variations, I've always been under the impression that "log in" is the act of logging in, while "login" is either the situation/event ("a login happened") or an alternative term for username.

You're right that "log in" is more distinct from "sign up" (and works because "logging up" doesn't make much sense), and I definitely agree with you that 'login' is a noun, if anything!

Both "log in" and "sign in" are anachronisms though - they're justified when you're actually signing-in-and-out of a computer system or building to log your visit, but the metaphor doesn't technically make as much sense when you're talking about authenticating the user on a website.

The evolution of the terms does let you nicely abstract away the actual mechanism of authentication for a user, which I suppose is the point.

> to log your visit

That is what many systems will do when you "log in", so to me that makes the most sense.

Actually, some people like consistency of sign up / sign in / sign out actions.

Would "connect" work too ?

I have the same struggle. I'm actually glad I read this since now I can just go with "sign in" and know that it is at least objectively the most used and therefore likely to be most understood by users.

I mostly get hung up on "why doesn't this stupid software support Single Sign On, it's 2014, why am I typing my current credentials into a web page that's either running on the same computer, or running on the local network, which is also going to inappropriately lock or kick me out after NN minutes of inactivity".

Touché

As a non-native English speaker, I prefer “log in” to “sign in” as “sign in” is very similar to “sign up” which some sites use instead of “register”. The difference between “sign in” and “sign up” is subtle and requires me to consciously think.

Use "log in" and "register". Don't make me think.

It's interesting that the 1964 CTSS manual† linked from the article (OCR'ed by Google††) uses "login", one word, no blank. See page 6 (page 14 of the PDF).

I knew about ships' logs, but I didn't know that the word "log" originated from the use of a wooden log tossed overboard attached to a knotted rope, so that the observed speed could be entered into a book that eventually came to be known as a ship's log.

Also interesting in that manual is that each "segment" of a command (what we now call a token) was six characters, blank-padded. The 7094 had 36-bit words and 6-bit bytes.

†http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/mit/ctss/CTSS_Program...

††http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:SapGOxk...

Isn't that in reference to a command literally named "login", presumably due to the lack of a good convention for separating words without the space character?

Like "useradd" on contemporary Linux.

That's very likely.

"the use of a wooden log tossed overboard attached to a knotted rope"

Now you know why speed is measured in knots

(Nowadays, it's a useful measure for great circle routes, that's why it's kept)

My father used to use a system (IBM?) that required him to 'track on' and 'track off'. Anyone come across this?

In the sixties, the IBM time-sharing system CP-67† would physically punch an "accounting card" on one of its card punches whenever a user logged off or did some other billable event, such as printing a listing.

CP-67 ran on the 360/67, which was a 360/65 with special DAT hardware that allowed it to provide each user with their own virtual machine with its own address space.

†http://www.multicians.org/thvv/360-67.html

Yes! I had to extract some data (in 1997!) off a DOS payroll package written in about 1985 that ran on an IBM 286. It was churning away quite happily. It seemed a bit like a 3270 terminal style application so I assume it was inspired by something distant and IBM. That had track on and track off!

On a side note, it was pretty easy to get the data off and reverse engineer the file format using visual basic at the time.

Was quite a fun project :)

Around here, it was "wand in" and "wand out" because they used a light pen to read a barcode on their badge to access the AS/400. My Dad still says "wand in" when he logs into his Mac.

Talk about old-school computation

I've heard some people use the term "Abended" for a crash, because it was an "ABnormal END" - Abend

I believe the term is much older, but it always reminds me of good ol' Netware from the 90's.

And, from the Jargon File, the joke was that this is what happened to jobs at the end of the day because the operators would shut off the computer before they went home at night, so it originates from the German Abend (evening).

The first time I heard the word "abend", I asked the speaker what it meant. He couldn't really answer: "you know, abend!" Eventually I got the sense that it meant "crash", but it seemed like some crashes met his unarticulable criteria and some did not.

Segmentation fault = abended. Python program crash with stack trace = not abended?

Yeah, I used to use that all the time. 'System xyz is showing an abend'.

I had totally forgotten the term until now. Think I might throw it around a bit, see who knows what I'm on about.

Amusing that a techie assumed it was invented for computers and someone came along and corrected him that it was in use long before. Props for the author on acknowledging it with the edit at least, even if he didn't correct his conclusion that it is an unnatural usage.

I liked this, a pretty cool origin of a now common phrase we use. I liken it to the origin of the term Computer, the person who would compute the result of some mathematical function...

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/10/comput...

It's interesting that this is the second recent article recounting the history of the term 'logbook', but in answer to a different puzzle: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7559141.

Surprised it hasn't come up in this thread already, but an excellent and free resource for this sort of thing is EtymOnline[0]. It's volunteer-made[1], has an easy search and quick on-results-page answers.

Here's the search page for Log: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=log

[0] http://www.etymonline.com [1] at least mostly - see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2580631

I find http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/etymology [the talk page for that one is fun] to be pretty good as an adjunct to EtymOnline.

I seem to remember some movie or TV show where it was "jack in", sort of plugging yourself into a system. Not sure about the opposite version though.

That's straight out of Neuromancer.

The opposite is a Russian surname.

Or Andromeda, where you had to physically stick a jack in your head if you wanted to do any serious work with a computer. http://andromeda.wikia.com/wiki/Dataport

And the opposite of "jack in" is "jack out" :p

Hmm, there are indeed two pairs, in/out and on/off.

I wonder how consistent everyone is about using the correct antonym, and how often you end up with in/off or on/out.

"out" is not the opposite of "in": Are you in line? No, I am out line!

"in"/{"out", "out of"}?

Probably not what you're thinking of, but in the animated children's show Megaman, people would jack in using their online companions into a cyberworld.

I thought you might mean Existenz but a quick check reveals them using "port in" ..

Ah, hang on "I jacked you in to my pod and you obviously panicked" (about 30 mins in when the lead male character gets a 'bioport' fitted and the lead female attempts to connect her 'pod' to it). Was that it?

Personally I do not think that 'log in' or 'sign in' are really satisfactory. The phrases are 'verbally skuomorphic'.

On the one hand you have 'log in' and that conjures up images of a mainframe computer with blinking lights (or something left in a toilet bowl), then, on the other hand there is 'sign in', that is a bit namby-pamby and reminiscent of what you do when you sign in when visiting someone in some posh office building.

We need to introduce a new word, something that has no real-world metaphor, that combines all the delights that go with made-up-words-for-programming. Recursive backronyms are great, plus the English language needs a word that rhymes with orange. There could be some real meaning to the word, as in, once '[xxx]-ed in' then your communications are certified NSA proof. Any suggestions?

With the right word we can introduce it in the programming community and, from there, it could enter into the wider audience and get into the OED.

'Sign in' is a relatively new contrivance, does anyone know what the first website was to use that? How did they invent it and get others to follow their example?

the concept of "signing in" is not unique to a web page though, you also do it at a hotel. you also do it if you have dinner reservations. you also do it if you pick up a package at the post office. You also might do it when you show up for work to be put on the clock.

sign in, check in, clock in, log in. its all referring to a social process that is unique to that engagement between those two parties. What is performed can be widely different, so it makes sense to go to these sort of common words.

I had always assumed it just came from the fact that something is literally logging the fact that you have logged in/signed in/starting using the service/whatever.

Always seemed rational enough to me!

i always pressumed the source of the phrase was due to being "logged" by the software. eg a user is "logging on" because he is literally going on the log. If you review the server logs youd see the user on (or in) the log.

the same kind of verbage is used in all similiar scenarios. you check in at a hotel for instance.. Check, sign, log, etc etc are all really just various words that roughly mean the same thing. Log just happens to be whats popular on the web.

what rolls down stairs, alone or in pairs, rolls over yours neighbors dog?

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