Apple, Be Afraid: China's Xiaomi Going Global | Hacker News Reader

Apple, Be Afraid: China's Xiaomi Going Global

forbes.com

23 pointsytNumbers43 comments

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Forbes really should just stop writing tech articles.

1) The article itself notes that Xaiomi's flagship phone is already facing declining sales in China (Apple is still increasing sales there, so who should be worried again?).

2) It's running Android - the closest equivalent product is the Samsung Galaxy S5, surely the headline should be warning Samsung, not Apple (Apple has a nice competitive moat by having their own OS / AppStore ecosystem).

3) Speaking of ecosystems, does this thing have Google Play (I looked on their site, but couldn't get a clear answer - no Google app logos though...)? If not, it's really going to struggle in Western markets.

> surely the headline should be warning Samsung, not Apple

Even then, Xaiomi surely couldn't compete with Samsung on pricing or advertising, given Samsung's huge advantage as a component manufacturer.

Samsung choose margins over industry-changingly competitive pricing though. They price like an iPhone, not a Nexus or from the article a Xiaomi.

And at that, they don't have massively high margins. Their marketing spend is absolutely huge, and would impede them from competing directly on price.

Good point, hadn't thought of that.

Which makes sense for them, given that they can get away with it. They'd be well-placed to win a price war if one started, although it would probably hurt.

They are already competing with Samsung on pricing.

Apple means clicks/ad displays. Like you said, Android OEMs should be the ones concerned more with this, than Apple.

Xaiomi actually makes good devices, design and spec wise. Android + Google Play + MIUI (iOS look) at prices cheaper than Samsung.

The hardware/design of the latest Xaiomi is very reminiscent of OnePlus One, hmmm.

> 3) Speaking of ecosystems, does this thing have Google Play (I looked on their site, but couldn't get a clear answer - no Google app logos though...)? If not, it's really going to struggle in Western markets.

It doesn't. Xiaomi phones ship with MIUI [1], a heavily modified version of Android; also, Xiaomi is not an OHA member. I doubt they will ever get the GMS certificate.

MIUI does has its own Store though, but the store may face real copyright issues outside China...

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIUI

Interestingly, they seem to only stop pre-installing Google Play recently and they claimed that it's due to Chinese policies [1]. According to my knowledge it should be more of Google policies...

In the same link [1] they also provided an (official?) installer for Google Play apps. Again, I'm not sure whether it conforms to Google policies.

1. http://en.miui.com/thread-3998-1-1.html

>It's running Android - the closest equivalent product is the Samsung Galaxy S5

Kind of. It's running MIUI, which is like an iOS themed android (with some nice added extras, like the ability to block specific permissions on apps).

The closest equivalent product was the moto g. I was about to get one when they brought out the redmi (it's basically the same but cost $130).

>Speaking of ecosystems, does this thing have Google Play

Yep. All works fine for me.

>MIUI, which is like an iOS themed android

I hear this line getting trotted around a lot, mostly from people who have never used MIUI themselves.

MIUI is an "iOS-themed Android" as much as Ubuntu's Unity is an "OS X-themed Linux DE".

>I hear this line getting trotted around a lot, mostly from people who have never used MIUI themselves.

Well, I use it every day.

> 1) The article itself notes that Xaiomi's flagship phone is already facing declining sales in China

Xiaomi is facing an overall reduction of sales of smartphones in China, according to the article, not a reduction in sales of their flagship phone. It may very well be they have problems growing the sales of Mi3 too, but that's not supported by the article.

Cupertino should be worried. Acer's laptop is cheaper than the MacBook Air -- 1,999 yuan versus 4,488—and better—the Acer has a larger and sharper screen and a camera with higher-density pixels. Unless you insist on having a depiction of a piece of fruit on your device, you will go with the Acer offering every time.

Edit: Satire

One thing we should've learned from apple long ago, is that hard numbers (larger, sharper screens, more GHz, more RAM) do not make a better product.

I won't change my macbook air for a laptop that will have a weaker construction, a fire-prone battery, and a less thought design. (I'm over-generalizing, just making a point)

The piece of fruit is just a nice final touch.

Yep as I always tell nagging people; give me a laptop of Macbook (pro/air) specs and quality for less than the equivalent non Apple one. There isn't much and most simply are not on par; feel like they will fall apart any moment like the Ativ 9 plus, which is actually more expensive anyway.

A second-hand Thinkpad.

Well which one? I like them and they are nice, but doesn't really compare to the air or the pro retina in handling. But maybe you have something in mind.

Funny thing is, I can't find any laptop that's the same form factor as the Air that has a similar/better screen/RAM/CPU and with a price that doesn't include Apple's "premium". (I've been trying to find one for running Linux on for a few years now)

Yeah that's what I meant with my comment although I think there is no 'premium'. Of course there is for them as they make insane profit, however, for consumer it's not really a premium as there is nothing comparable for that price. Twice as expensive you can get things but even then...

If the Air 11 inch gains retina and around 5+ hours more battery life, it is the ultimate laptop and there is no reason for anything else in life :)

fire-prone battery? They seem to be as fire-prone as everybody else's

http://www.zdnet.com/apple-macbook-battery-exploded-70000234...

Maybe, but is the charger as durable? The construction as good? The colors on the screen as vivid?

I am not trying to say apple is perfect, I am just trying to say that they show that bigger numbers do not correspond to a better product. And some of the things that DO make a better product are sometimes harder to quantify (will the laptop hinges squeak after a month of use?)

As someone in this thread mentioned, getting a laptop with comparable build quality and specs as a mac will not be especially cheaper, even though everyone seems to think so.

<sarcasm> Yeah, definitely. That's the only reason I spent extra money on a Macbook. I have a weird obsession with silhouettes of fruit. My decade of professional software development experience didn't even factor into it; I'm merely a slave to trends and popularity. </sarcasm>

Apple's laptops are really, really good. They don't really target the lower end of the market; while they have relatively lower specs for some components, they also use pretty high-quality materials and design. The cost difference between a Macbook and a similarly-specced, similar-quality machine from another manufacturer is minimal.

The tradeoff is higher in China, no doubt, due to the inflated price of Apple hardware relative to locally-produced examples.

In any case, even if you argument made sense (it doesn't), Macs have been "more expensive" (they're not) than other manufacturer's offerings forever. What's changed now?

I have a feeling the parent's post was a sarcastic quip on a similar sentence in the article. :)

Saying "you will go with the Xiaomi offering every time" based on just three factors (price, screen size and camera quality) is over-the-top, hugely simplistic and ignores phenomenally important elements like marketing and the actual software on the phone.

Especially if you're comparing with Apple where not having an Apple phone may mean losing access to a significant amount of purchases.

Can some advertising or branding expert tell me why I buy iPhones and would never consider buying anything else?

Probably because the first smartphone you bought was an iPhone and you have no reason to put in the effort to switch.

Not to mention that:

1) Screen size is a personal preference, bigger != better. And even if it was so, Apple is preparing a new iPhone with a larger screen to be shown in June's WWDC according to all rumors.

2) Price is irrelevant if the devices are not comparable.

3) The iPhone regularly beats all other phones in camera reviews. If it's worse than anything, it is marginally worse. And after you get your photos in, the iPhone has crazy good apps for managing them, from VSCO and Camera+, to Photoshop and Lightroom Mobile.

4) And all that are for last years model. In less than 2 months there will be a NEW iPhone announced.

>bigger != better

It's hard to ignore the hint of irony here when it's the Westerners' turn to tout this line.

Actually not a westerner :-)

When I lived in China I owned one of the first generation xiaomi phones. It was charging on my desk and suddenly it started smoking. I quickly unplugged it and found all the around the usb port was melted. I posted it on Chinese twitter and it went quite viral. Then they kept badgering me to take it down and gave me a refund.

So unless they have improved their product quality and their testing I don't think Apple have anything to worry about.

Having said that it seems people like disposable goods these days as long as they are cheap...

It's all about branding. So far there is not a single Chinese company that has been able to build up their own brand from scratch to become a leader in the consumer space. The strategy therefore is to buy out established Japanese and European companies for their brand value - but none of these candidates have the reputation and brand capability to get even close to Apple or Google.

What about Lenovo?

There is quite a non-trivial number of Chinese firms that have managed to do so, but admittedly not in the consumer space.

Lenovo didn't do it from scratch. Lenovo bought IBM's PC business.

Lenovo had a quite well known brand before they bought IBM's PC business. It was what made them enough money to buy IBM's PC business.

They're trying to build up their brand the same way as Apple - with big bang launches and limited sales.

It sort of created a buzz in Singapore and Hong Kong. Lots of people were talking about this super cheap high spec phone that sold out in minutes.

Who knows if it will pay off in the long run, though.

Forbes, Be Afraid: Business Insider has Gone Global.

"announced [...] that it is planning [...] this year." I'd be scared, too, about this vagueness.

Apple and Samsung, LG, HTC, Microsoft, etc

I doubt there afraid form a relatively unknown chinese company who has little to no exposure outside china.

Not to mention the privacy concerns of a company operating in a country where laws/company/interests and national security interests are wrapped in the same corruption.

> Not to mention the privacy concerns of a company operating in a country where laws/company/interests and national security interests are wrapped in the same corruption.

Are we talking about the US or China here?

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