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Comment by choult | Hacker News Reader

Please note, I am posting this with despair - it's little surprise that women are under-represented in our industry if this kind of thing can stand.

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I know this is likely an unpopular opinion but here it goes: what the fuck does this have to do with under-representation in our industry?

There's medical-themed porn, school-themed porn and I'm sure someone in Japan has made at least one hacking-themed porn movie until now. That doesn't stop women from becoming doctors, going to school or hacking. There are striptease-themed news, too, and that doesn't prevent women going into television.

Is the site ridiculous and tasteless? Definitely. It's also not implying that women are lifeless beautiful objects who can't program any more than cheerleading implies that women are lifeless beautiful objects who suck at sports or strip clubs imply that women are lifeless beautiful objects who are only good at dancing. Would you also object to women at your favourite strip club wearing Tux bras?

Yeah, it's a piece of thrash, but also not more relevant to our industry than teasenews.com is to journalism.

The problem for me is that my wife is constantly trying to get into programming. The industry is already gender-biased enough. If she thinks that this is the kind of thing that programmers want - she's going to be turned off from continuing down that path.

Maybe your wife is much more intelligent than you think.

Maybe she is not an impressionable toddler and can laugh at both the ridiculousness of this site and your reaction to it.

Mine complained they don't have a version with male hotties, too. FML.

http://codedicks.com/

The big difference is this isn't programming-themed porn, but porn-themed programming education. The context within which someone wants to watch porn of any variety is rather different to that in which someone wants to learn how to program and stumbles across stuff like this.

Much like Teasenews is porn-themed journalism and Game of Thrones is a porn-themed entertainment. Bodies naked to various degrees are pretty much omnipresent today. Not necessarily a good thing, but it's not like you can step away from that horrible website and not walk into something comparable within five minutes.

> "I know this is likely an unpopular opinion but here it goes: what the fuck does this have to do with under-representation in our industry?"

I agree. Aren't woman underrepresented in most STEM jobs anyways? And overrepresented in other jobs like e.g. kindergarten teachers? Woman are just wired differently as men. And perhaps woman are also conditioned differently as men from a young age (girls get to play with dolls, boys with cars and legos). There could be an evolutionary reason for this, since ages ago most men were probably hunters while most woman likely tended to the children.

Of course sexism in tech is bad and we should try to reduce sexism wherever possible, but that's a different issue. I'm not sure we should try to push woman into technology (or fields like construction, etc...), just as I'm not sure we should try to push men into jobs where men are underrepresented.

I don't know it's a matter of men and women being "wired differently" or not, what I'm implying is that seriously, this site, while tasteless and of questionable educational quality, is really no more sexist than your average TV commercial, shopping mall or bar. Not everything with boobs is sexist, ffs.

It's not, but should we also not protest those as well?

Do we not teach children wrong by showing we are displeased? That silence means their actions are acceptable. Perhaps not reward-worthy, but acceptable. Thus are you saying that the behaviors shown on TV, shopping malls, bars, that is how you want you, your friends, your children to be treated?

It's how my children are going to be treated this way by anyone who thinks that this kind of behaviour is acceptable. I'd much rather have my children think for themselves and know how to deal with people who behave in a way they think is unacceptable to them, than futilely protest against something that many people find absolutely fine.

Under-representation doesn't only have to do with "women being wired differently". See, even women who have studied STEM are more likely to drop out from STEM jobs - for a series of reasons, but sexism seems to be one of them, so it's not off-topic here.

By the way, I do think we should also support diversity in some jobs where men are underrepresented, like teaching - I was reading a psychiatrist explain how the "girlification of elementary school" can be damaging for boys. (http://www.esquire.com/features/drugging-of-the-american-boy...)

"Of course sexism in tech is bad and we should try to reduce sexism wherever possible, but that's a different issue."

i nominate for Best Mansplaining.

I never thought I'd live to see the day the word "mansplaining" is used on Hacker News unironically.

As a logical thinking human being, if you are constantly being told you should go be a teacher, nurse, etc and then you end up in a field where you are told you do not belong. Where every day you have to wonder if the guy smiling creepily at you is listening to you or staring at your chest during scrum. Where you wonder if you should report the guy who would not let go of your hand when you and your coworkers went for drinks after work or if that would make them fire you for being a disruptive influence. Or maybe you should just not socialize with your coworkers.

If you are an intelligent human being who could go do and learn whatever you wanted, which was why you went, fuck conformity, I'm going to program and did it, why would you stay in an environment where you feel unsafe, objectified, and unwanted?

And at the end of the day, if another human being tells you that your actions make them feel unsafe, objectified, and unwanted, why is your reaction to tell them to leave?

Have you considered that perhaps there are girls who do not like playing with dolls? Who wanted the legos and Knex, who their parents had to threaten to keep them from taking apart the television and wanted a soldering iron instead of Barbies. That the very girls who ignore the conditioning you mentioned who make it regardless of social pressures when they realize that you, their peers, will continue to think they do not belong and they will have to fight your mentality for the rest of their lives, that you would rather believe that they simply can't hack it so you can justify the job distribution, why should they have to endure the perpetual questioning, lewd comments, uncomfortable stares, and stress? Why as fellow human beings would you ask that of anyone?

It’s just… what can you even say? Someone not only thought this was a good idea (which is bad enough) but then went ahead and actually built it.

And even worse - will most likely make money from it.

100% agree. This is offensive and sexist. I'm a man and I'm offended, and can only imagine how women must find it.

Even I felt the same. How insensitive people have become!

And porn degrades women right?

Why are you offended? Do you really think this is a serious website? maybe the next Codecademy.

On a lighter note, its really funny how you think "women must find it" offensive, but not for a single second you even thought that same statement is really really sexist.

ps: About the website, on my scale between love it and hate it, its in the "who gives a f*?" category. Daytime television if full of this cheesy type of stuff.

> And porn degrades women right?

Yes.

> On a lighter note, its really funny how you think "women must find it" offensive, but not for a single second you even thought that same statement is really really sexist.

I am aware, I spent 10 minutes before posting trying to find a way to phrase it without sounding like that. Either I removed it entirely and sounded without empathy, or I left it in and sounded patronising. What would be an improved way to say it? I'm listening and I would like to learn.

You can just say it's offensive. Qualifying it with your gender is the opposite of what you want to do.

> What would be an improved way to say it?

Not say it. Don't just assume you know the experience of the Other because you read some Tumblr blogs.

you're what? 14?

seriously... it's time for all little boys to grow the fk up.

I am a man. I find it offensive, too. To everyone else: sure sex sells in plenty of areas of society. It doesn't need to be in technical training.

I find it offensive as well. But people are entitled to their free speech, so jabbering on about it is pretty much pointless. But if you like decency enforced by fiat, you could always move to Russia or NK...

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