Chinese netbooks break $100 mark... | Hacker News Reader

Chinese netbooks break $100 mark...

netbookstation.com

Once again the market and technological progress produces something that a dedicated group of smart individuals at a non-profit could not do.

I have no idea idea why this happens, but I've seen it again and again.

I wish that non-profits could be more effective at things like this, I've certainly worked at enough that were going for similar goals. But for some reason, somewhere, the incentives or the structure just don't align to produce these breakthroughs.

Maybe one day we will figure it out.

Of course, it's a piece of garbage...

As always, the shortcut to success is to lower your standards.

Do you own one or have experience with it ?

I once owned a computer with similar specifications... 11 years ago. It was a piece of garbage too.

11 years ago ???

802.11b was the first widespread wifi standard and it was not even released 11 years ago (October '99), and yet you had a computer with similar specifications ? I assume you refer to a laptop using 'wavelan' ?

The closest that I can remember from those days to what is offered here was the compaq contura aero, after that the Toshiba libretto, neither of them had built in wifi (heck, they had no networking at all, just a serial port, and a pcmcia slot that you could plug an ethernet expansion card in if you felt like spending more $ on that than on the whole laptop discussed in this thread).

Both of these machines were of a build quality that the machine you're looking at here probably could not match, but their price points were considerably higher.

What make & model was it ?

To be fair, this isn't the same as the OLPC. The OLPC was rather rugged, and well designed for the kids it was intended to serve (see the wifi, screen, etc). This is simply a normal, but cheap, computer - impressive though the achievement is.

I think that without the OLPC project and the fact that it identified that market these would not exist.

Even now there are plenty of people that would like sub $100 netbooks to disappear as soon as possible because there is very little room for bundle deals at that pricepoint.

If you strip out the windows license on this thing it costs about $65.

Can you cite a source for that cost? That's 35% Windows tax, which would leave the market ripe for Linux boxes to undercut and pocket the difference. In my opinion, we'll take computers as cheap as we can get them and remote to the big iron; this being a "small" market is wishful thinking by established players.

Well, you can't compare the OLPC with this here. The only thing they have in common is the projected price.

The OLPC has been built years ago and almost matched the 100$ price.

Also the OLPC XO is high tech that will work even in sub-Saharan Africa while this thing here will break before reaching Africa.

The OLPC did not work out as well as planned because governments did not buy enough of them so it's rather a mistake to work with governments on such a project.

Here is a picture: http://guangzhou.baixing.com/zanzhushang/t3122465.html

It also has wifi and a choice of 2, 4, or 8GB flash drive. Only 800x400 resolution though.

Resolution means jack squat if you will be using the thing as an Emacs station at 25x80 ;-)

you mean vi?

Urgh, I can't stand coding on those tiny keyboards.

You're wrong about the resolution, it's 800x480, the quoted price is for the 2G flash version.

Sorry, typo.

wow that track pad looks small. I am reluctant to say that this laptop is usable at all for day to day usage. Probably wont be able to run youtube on 64mb ram and 266mhz cpu.

I've used the eee pc (same form factor) on trips to keep an eye on things and read email, the trackpad is small but usable, for longer uses add a very small travellers mouse.

It explicitly states it can do H.264 in the docs (for skype), not sure if it will even do flash.

It is definitely not meant for all day usage, but if you're a kid then it's doable (small keyboards work better with small fingers :) ).

Screen shows clearly Windows XP, specs list WinCE and ARM CPU. Photoshop?

I would'nt mind a 14 inch, Intel Atom, no DVD, minimum USB drive, ultrathin, 6 hour battery life netbook

OT: Fellow foreigners trying to import this need to be aware of the messy electronics business in ShenZhen. Please look carefully where the companies you're dealing with are located. Get a map of ShenZhen and try to find where the companies are located. Anything in Hua Xiang Bey, or Hua Xiang Lu is probably just a reseller or a front, or a scam; even though Hua Xian Bay area is THE Electronics mall, reputable companies have their offices and factories in the suburbs, usually outside the free zone (say, Bo'An or Nanshan) and until recently foreigners where required to have a permit to enter. (I would be suspicious of any electronics firm that didn't have an office in Guangdong Province, specially those in Fujian (Fuzhou, Xiamen, etc. Taiwan proximity notwithstanding); anything in Beijing or such odd-ball non-business location should be avoided with extreme prejudice.)

Most Chinese electronics companies are in Southern China, but you will have to be a veteran to know where specific specialties congregate. There is nothing in Guangzhou, at least not computer or multimedia electronic gadgets; but you find everything else in GZ. DongGuan is mostly textiles, heavy machinery and manufacturing equipment; I wouldn't trust a company based in DG to sell me a netbook. Avoid Hong Kong by all means, you will be paying premium for someone to take the 40 minute KCR train to ShenZhen.

Laptops are extremely expensive in China because of local demand. In fact, I exported IBM Thinkpads from U.S. to China at handsome profit. There are "shell" laptops that look and function like any other laptop, but they're just shells. The Chinese are excellent at making flash-memory based gadgets, but their harddisk based gadgets have plenty of catching up to do (we bought Chinese stuff and fitted them with harddisks in our houses in London and New York)

Most good Chinese companies can afford sales staff with excellent English communication skills. Though they're not always proficient, the professional sales stuff are polished and know their industry inside and out. Scammers, OTOH, usually have impeccable English but are not professionals; legit sales people will try to talk trash about a competition, while a scammer will tell you he can offer you his competition's products as well. Legit salesmen don't make decisions on the spot. If you tell them you want a container of this products, they will ask you if they can come back with an answer. Scammers have an enviable 'can do' attitude.

[Update:

Face, face, face! Don't lose face and don't cause someone else to lose face. Every word you say will be remembered and will be held against you; don't hint at a huge order unless you're going to place it. Your salesman is counting on a commission, and if he knows he has a big order coming he might just spend his few hundred last kuwais trying to impress you and host you for lavish dinners (and if you're not there, he will pre-invest that money in another client of his, treating him to expensive nights out.)

It's better to low-ball your ambitions and earn their respect when you place a huge order.

A legit company's salesman will probably be asking about your budget and MOQs right of the bat. That's how you can tell scammers, they're happy to sell you a "sample" and offer to deliver it DHL. If your legit company does free shipping, they will certainly don't wanna do DHL or FedEx or anything that expensive; if your margins are good enough pay for the shipping yourself.

]

> There are "shell" laptops that look and function like any other laptop, but they're just shells.

Can you elaborate on that ? If the look like and function like any other laptops aren't they simply laptops ?

The best scam I have seen for this booted linux off a USB flash built into the "laptop" deep down and inside and they gave you a VNC session to a nearby beefy Windows XP running on dual cores and 4GB (these particular guys were caught after I pulled out the ethernet, but I would have paid them a grand in cash if they had the foresight to add a wifi card.) The laptop itself is probably some kind of cheap ARM processor with 128 megs. Others have been ancient laptops put into a brand new case and the Windows OS hexedited to oblivion to report larger resources (this is even trivial when the sellers are pretending to be Lenovo employees; they say it has no OS and they can boot the machine to BIOS, show you the resources it has and peripherals but until it fails to find and OS in the MBR; yyyyeah, you just been looking at a "demo"; the power button has been rigged to replay a video; press ALT-TAB and you will end up in Windows 98 Media Player.)

P.S. If you suspect a scam don't call them out on it. Just say you have no money and walk away. Most of these "criminals" are just unemployed laborers working for a local mafia anyway, no need to make the poor guy lose face.

Wow! Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo!

You have to hand them kudos for being creative though :)

Reminds me of a video compression box I was asked to inspect for an investor in the mid 80's.

This is actually a pretty cool little machine, it looks to be a total knock-off of the low end asus eee pc, except that they stuck an ARM in it.

Can anybody make out what that thing is to the top left of the right hand hinge on the screen portion ?

Feature list:

7" 800x480 TFT

2G nand flash

266 MHz ARM cpu (AK7802Q216)

64 MB DDR RAM

mic jack

earphone jack

WIFI

SD slot

3x USB

RJ 45 Ethernet port

7.4V 1800 mAh battery

charger

Software:

win CE ms word viewer

ms excel viewer

physical dimensions: 213.5mm x 141.8mm x 30.8mm

I wonder that the battery life is, ARM chips are pretty frugal.

Smart move on the SD slot - that and a USB flash drive would do the job for a lot of amateur photographers. There's a pretty good selection of software for ARM linux too.

Costs as much as the iPhone, weaker, and it won't even fit in your pocket!

But you can be root.

You don't buy an iPhone for $100, you get a plan that you will pay a premium on that will pay for 'your' iPhone.

I'm putting the 'your' in quotes here because it seems that Apple thinks it still owns it as well, even though they give you the thing and give you a bill of sale.

Yea I know. I'm just saying when get one of these china made and designed computers you'll realize they're probably worth far less than $100.

It's $100 man lighten up. I'll bet you can do some cool hacking on it.

What the hell are you talking about? I'm stunned that we've come so far, so fast, that you can buy a fully functional portable computer for under $100!!

Your comparison with the iPhone, which is almost 10 times the price, is completely invalid. And your little slur on "China design" is also wrong. Countries don't design things, companies do. And it's not like America has any kind of reputation for good design besides the output of a single company - which is arguably largely due to the effort of a single man!

> which is arguably largely due to the effort of a single man!

I doubt that. I'm taking it that you refer to Steve Jobs here, and while he has a ton of influence there are a lot more people making a lot of effort than just him.

Steve Jobs by himself would - just like any other human being - have a hard time designing a functioning and well packaged toaster from scratch.

There are a lot of people involved in product development at Apple, any item they release is the product of the efforts of a very large team.

For the rest of it I completely agree with your comment.

Hm, I meant more that he'd instituted a culture of design obsession at Apple, not that he personally designed each and every product. I think the culture of perfectionism and extreme attention to detail at Apple is largely due to his efforts.

Thanks for the reminder, though.

My comparison was meant as an exaggeration, sorry if that wasn't clear. The country does not design however the culture, accepted standards, less regulation, the regular market they cater to, etc, do mean that china more often than not design products that may be considered sub standard quality. I've lived there so you would know when you've actually held and used some of these genuine china made products. At the north American int'l auto shows, chinas prototypes had visible defects, were hell ugly, and partially constructed of bamboo.

Now this company may be better, but chances are this computer has poorer build quality.

I don't think they did much designing other than to take the atom reference motherboard and find a way to graft an ARM in there, all the rest looks like a dead ringer for the eee pc.

Build quality is something you can only establish by looking at the product and preferably disassembling it. Even then you still have to remember it's a statistics game, something may look excellent and yet it could fail miserably and in large numbers over a longer period of time.

You'll be able to type on it faster than iPhone. Not to mention attach USB peripherals. Although I'm into tablets too, very often what I need from a portable doesn't demand much in the way of processing power, just the basics.

As a bonus, the cheaper products like this, being made with generic parts, are often more hackable/upgradeable than the more expensive branded models where features are locked down to ensure market segmentation.

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