Comment by ErrantX | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ErrantX | Hacker News Reader

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Certainly not ignorance; I've seen this affect first hand.

Mass panic in the US is incredibly different from what is seen in, say, India. It's fantastically interesting to see.

In the US it tends to be an "inactive panic" - so people will rant at length in bars and with friends etc. but end up taking no practical measures. The media heavily milk the situation but the healthcare profession tend to take a sensible laid back approach. In China (as I havent observed swine flu panic in India) its a much more "active panic". With remedies, face masks, precautions etc.

One of the guys who works for us and lives in India part of the year says mass movement is definitely part of the culture - and that panic (espeacially a global panic) can overlay onto that in interesting ways.

No ignorance: just interest.

> When they haven't been to grade five. They are more likely to believe heresy and superstition.

This perhaps was the problem then: the issue in the comet example was the media started the mass panic. But it was fairly global: and one of the biggest adverse reactions was in Asia.

Also please note you might have misconstrued "culture" - I see you talk about language and heritage, This is not the culture I refer to: but instead culture of the society there. And whilst India does have a many faceted and seriously complex mix of cultures and heritage it also has a clear national culture constructed from that. Sorry I didnt make that clear.

> I see this way too often about eastern cultures on the internet. And it sure is upsetting and extremely irritating.

(sorry to keep editing in further replies - im working at the same time). I find this highly offensive. Because I am definitely not ignorant of Eastern culture having spent some time there and having a deep interest in people, their interactions and their cultures. Please note I never said mass panic doesnt manifest in other cultures - I was simply commenting on one of the unique ways it does manifest in Asia.

Link me up with the suicides due to reports of Cyanide. That sounds ridiculous to me.

with pleasure :) (bear in mind this is in 1910! Internet-ness is vague. Hunt down a book called "Risk: The Science and Politics of Fear" - that has better references, I dont have it to hand right now)

http://books.google.com/books?id=U4FZp6f6q6MC&pg=PA437&#... http://starryskies.com/articles/dln/3-98/comet.html

Interestingly in Rome the manifestation was a hording of oxygen bottles (which had to be banned briefly). There was some suicides there too I think.

Ah!!

Well my dear friend this was not in India. But America. I remember watching about this hysteria on Carl Sagan's Cosmos. They had organized parties all over California as they thought they were going to die in some days as the Earth would be finished. And so it was better to have fun, make confessions etc. So there.

Coming back. Well don't you think there's a difference between 1910 and now? If you move the clock back a little. I think witches were pretty common in America and Europe (and related hysteria in towns and cities where they were "located") too don't you think? Or take the hysteria after the launch of the Sputnik. People thought they were just going to be bombed every second day.

And suicides weren't because it was said Halleys' tail had cyanide. It was because of this: Comets have had a history IN ALL cultures to invoke some sort of fear. The only difference is that there are still a lot of people in Eastern countries who are backward. That's the only difference. In Europe not very long ago, comets could lead to executions. In places like India and China there are still a lot of people who hold on to such beliefs that the gods are angry.

And when I said about culture I meant that there are hundreds of cultures and such rituals are more prevalent in some of them than the others. So generalizing would be a sin.

About flu. I have not been to America since the outbreak of the flu so I can't say. I think in India and China some of it is necessary. A lot of people live in slums, and these are more likely to catch the virus once it has spread. Right now it is confined to people who came in touch with people coming from abroad. If there isn't a certain degree of hysteria, there could be catastrophe when these poor people start getting it.

And I agree with your point about the media created frenzy, but I again believe that it's the same in all countries if you normalize.

> Well my dear friend this was not in India. But America.

It was definitely global: and the material reference India and Rome specifically.

I suspect your thinking to the Heavens Gate cult (which is a different incident) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven%27s_Gate_%28cult%29

> Well don't you think there's a difference between 1910 and now?

Yes. I never implied there wasnt! The effect of fear is still the same - and though the response has changed it is intriguing.

> The only difference is that there are still a lot of people in Eastern countries who are backward.

You've brought "backward" into this: im uncomfortable with that. Quite where I have suggested any form of backwardness (???) is a bit of a mystery - you've made an assumption I think (my fault: I was too objective in the original statement). I also call bull shit. There are lots of "backwards" people in the world irrespective of culture. No more or no less in Eastern countries. I cant believe you would suggest as much!

There actually is an important difference: but not the one you identified. It is to do with Stigma. In Europe especially there is a HUGE stigma about suicide. In 1910 it was even more so. There was almost certainly terror but the suicide rate was lower (if not almost non-existant) because doing so was bad.

I've noticed that stigma is less apparent (but not, note, non-existent) in some parts of Asia. This I would suggest identifes

> A lot of people live in slums, and these are more likely to catch the virus once it has spread.

You make a superb point and I agree. I havent seen "on the ground" but it would be interesting to see the reactions of those living in slums compared to, say, middle class business men. From previous observations I would suspect that a more "hysterical" reaction would be in the business persons with the others taking a more liberal view.

And note we are talking about panic: which is a bad thing in these circumstances. If it is, as you say, confined to those coming from abroad then mass panic seems overkill. Concern, planning and education is the better approach (but everywhere has fallen foul of that).

But here were on a discussion of panic and hysteria: where I was sort of talking more about how reactions to that manifest.

Here in the UK there has been NO reaction even in the slightest bit similar to that in India, China and lots of other regions (Italy again strikes me as one to join that group from what I have read). A lot of the media hype has met with cynicism. There was some hoarding of Tammiflu but that died off very quickly when people weren't really dying of it. Every few weeks now the media try and whip it all up again but it's not sticking.

I find these to polar reactions interesting: and it really does appear to me that culture is the overriding factor in all of it.

>>It was definitely global: and the material reference India and Rome specifically.

Sure it had to be. But it can not be in India due to news that the comet tail had cyanide AT ALL. In India it would have to do more with religious and cultural implications of a comet than what it had (just like it would have had an impact in Europe a century earlier).

>> You've brought "backward" into this: im uncomfortable with that.

Well I should I have been clearer. What I meant was not related to your point. I meant that a lot of people would still think that eclipse has to do with gods than being a physical phenomenon. I think that ignorance. And this is more prevalent in people in India who are educationally backward.

>> I've noticed that stigma is less apparent

I found your paragraph interesting. And I do not agree. There could be a whole new thread on that.

>> And note we are talking about panic: which is a bad thing in these circumstances. If it is, as you say, confined to those coming from abroad then mass panic seems overkill. Concern, planning and education is the better approach (but everywhere has fallen foul of that)...

I agree with the rest of your comment after this point. And I think this is more studied.

And No I was referring specifically to the 1910 halley's comet. Not the incidence you mentioned.

Here check this video my friend : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR6Q79FkBoQ

see after 3:25. Please do.

People in India would not commit suicide due to knowing there is cyanide in comet's tail. But because maybe the gods are angry. ;-) So I do think your comment was ignorant at face value.

Hysteria is common to all cultures. Certain hysteria would be more likely in western cultures and some more likely in eastern cultures. A bomb blast in LA would lead to hysteria in CA. A bomb blast in Peshawar would be normal. Life would be okay in another two days.

I don't think it's wise to say it's a culture thing.

> Hysteria is common to all cultures.

yes. I have never suggested otherwise!

My point is reaction to that hysteria is very different!

It's okay if you find it offensive. I found your original unedited comment equally offensive.

While I respect your interest in people and I don't mean it to be personal at all.

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