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Comment by joedavison | Hacker News Reader

Thich Nhat Hanh is just as corrupt as the "business and finance" executives he is criticizing. His aspirations for fame and constant media attention belie the very principles he supposedly espouses, such as humility.

Thich Nhat Hanh is one step above Deepak Chopra in terms of being a "pop-spirituality" guru, so it's no wonder that hypocritical CEO's who want to relieve some of their own guilt are flocking to him.

Of course pursuing "mindfulness" practices for the sole reason of profiting your company is a corrupt practice that goes against the entire purpose of spiritual development. Why is this even a question?

The problem (for the majority of "business leaders" who lack discernment and compassion -- otherwise they wouldn't have been able to rise to the position they are in) is that real Buddhism (real "mindfulness") is hard -- and real masters don't advertise.

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He has done tons of work of spreading a very positive message distilling the essence of Buddhist teachings and freeing it from what we know today is superstition. His books, unlike most books in this genre, are almost completely free of "woo", while succeeding in finding a somewhat positive and rational attitude toward life eternal problems, I for one think this is remarkable. I don't see any evidence for him seeking "constant media attention" or being "corrupt", I think he is simply being pragmatic in attempts to improve the world, which is indeed very Buddhist. In any case, I don't care if he is "real" or not, I like the actual "teachings".

Many of those supposedly "real" masters have been meanwhile repeatedly compromised over the years when scandals of sexual abuse, drug and alcohol addiction, military involvement and corruption surfaced. I don't think the cult of the master, or the kind of elitism you are spreading, is very helpful in making the world a better place.

Yes, the scandals, no safe haven, our idols themselves sometimes have a shady side ;-)

Still, the teaching itself can be authentic at the same time. See Trungpa Rinpoche's "The Path is the Goal" and the fact that he was an alcoholic who had sex with some (many?) of his students. Or, master Seung Sahn's, "The Compass of Zen", and his penchant for alcohol and female students. There are of course other masters in the same boat, a conundrum, the teaching speaks volumes, but their actions do too o_O

"Real" Buddhism is a lot of things; there are many different types and practices. Ad hominem attacks aren't nice. It sounds to me like he offered some great perspective to the absurdity of a lot of startup culture today. I'm happy someone took the time to do it. I think it falls under the part of the eightfold path to "Work for good and oppose evil".

I guess this would be downvoted but I'll say it anyway:

I am struggling to have a mindful life for about 15 years now and I had to fight anything, family, habits, pleasure just to make the time and space for that.

And businesses and finance where my constant enemies and the only that defeated me and that they managed to have their way.

I need this for my health too, I have psoriasis and mindfulness and yoga are the only things that really work.

And to see now that these SOB CEOs are the epitome of mindfulness is heartbreaking.

One of this days I will ask this question on HN:

Who would hire me for 100 Euro/ 15 hours/ week so I can take care of my mindfulness.

I'm assuming you want to be more mindful rather than dismissing it altogether.

You know that the Buddha ditched his job, family, politics, sports, religion, all the rest on the path to his nirvana? If you can, put those to rest during your meditation sessions, maybe, or look more deeply into how much loving-kindness you have for your family and consider how you can skillfully manage your family's status and future. Lay followers can't really practice strict Buddhism as well as monks, but that doesn't mean that occasional mindfulness now and then won't help you at all. In fact, lay arhats are quite well-known. Try setting down your worries, your guilt, your longing, your misery while you breathe in and out slowly, go for a walk, soak in your morning shower, do your business on the toilet. Just try things out if you really want to practice it more, watch what happens.

On the other hand, if your focus on being mindful is what you see as your cause of pain, misery, grief, and strife, abandon it. Medicine is poison in the wrong dose. You should sort out your problems AND study what Buddhism is and what it's about before you commit yourself to inner peace, if you're really interested in it. Maybe check out a meditation retreat to celebrate when you have time off, so you'll be that much less stressed when you want to devote time to it and learn with living teachers.

Writing down your thoughts on stresses and all that on paper can be a good meditative task/stress relief. If things are really quite severe, you should try to see a psychologist or psychiatrist, things may be more than just spiritual in your case.

You seem to be doing alright if you've made it this far along and can be posting here :) Hopefully things pick up!

Thanks for your kind reply. The problems are not that I don't manage to be mindful all those many years helped me and it comes quite naturally.

The problem I have is with a full time job where I need to stress myself for all those things that don't deserve in 8-9 hours, and if I am mindful and do things from the heart also I feel the cause doesn't deserve the grace.

My problem is on the business side: I need a job where I work only 15 hours a week/ 8-10$ hour (this should show that I want to be frugal) and with a mindful friendly business and colleagues. I have medium network skills, medium linux skills, medium programming skills (python/javascript), English and Italian skills and native Romanian speaker skills.

TL, DR: What breaks my heart is this, I thought it was obvious from my OP, from my experience finance/business are the greatest obstacle to mindfulness and when CEOs pose as the apex of mindfulness the result is obvious: you need finance/business success to be successful in mindfulness. Which is a very perverse way to subvert it all.

P.S. I tried a dropout with half success, but I don't want to scare and set aloof my family again and because of that I want a bare of financial security.

It's irresponsible not to cite evidence for Thich Nhat Hanh's "aspirations for fame and constant media attention". Do you say that because he's featured in a Guardian article?

He's a monk! He not looking for anything in return. Some masters get the word out, others don't. There's no rules.

Wow.

This is a collection of disgusting and unfounded claims.

>real masters don't advertise

Really? Interesting that you say that, because the Buddha spent most of his life spreading and teaching Buddhism in any place he could find. Teaching the Dharma to others is central to Buddhism, and "advertising" is the sole reason Buddhism has spread from a tiny unknown place in India to cover most of Asia - in many different flavors. Nor is it traditionally "hard" - outside of the monastic tradition, regular people have been encouraged from the dawn of Buddhism to practice very real Buddhism by doing a lot of very easy and simple things: visiting holy sites and praying, mostly.

Thich Nhat Hanh devoted his life to spreading Buddhism to the west. His financial success is a measure of how successful he has been at that. From a purely Buddhist perspective - this is a very good thing.

If he is helping others become happier while not hurting anyone, what harm is there in that? If only everyone would live their lives this way, the world would be a better place.

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